Just finished my PADI Cert - you have GOT to be kidding me

[MattC007]

Too bad they can't service their own gear properly. I think you should find another dive shop.

 

[Bob Vincent]

It's a liability thing............not letting students use there own gear. The only way they know that it is actually new and/or recently serviced is if you got it from them.

Of course the shop you're talking about doesn't sound like they're to worried about liability :shakehead

I think that is WRONG on so many levels ... where did you hear it's a liability issue. If it is true and an agency that says that you'll never see the C-Card in alot of wallets thats for sure. That backs that point of view to head for the hills and stay there!

That shop is plain and completely nuts. First of all if that much equipment was messed up you know they cut corners first and wouldn't be worried about customer relations.

Leave there never let the door hit you on the way out ... never return and tell everyone you run across about their methods ... period.

That ruins are sport ... and makes us look bad besides an accident ready to happen. They need to get with it are get out of business!!!!!

 

[offthewall1]

It's always disappointing to here new divers disappointed with their local shop... this is unfortunately a regular occurrence in many places - due simply to the ignorance of LDS owners. Many of us now cater to divers everywhere - providing superior service from afar.

I'm going to tell you a quick story... I've been diving for twelve years. I started out by overpaying in local shops and believing all they said about internet sellers. Then I got into dive leadership as an SSI Dive Con (Dive Master) and worked in two local shops that continued to rip me off - even though I was helping them grow their business.

Not long after leaving the second shop I had a problem with an Aeris BCD I had bought from them. Even though it was only about two months old they refused to do anything and told me I had to call the manufacturer. I called the manufacturer and they told me to take it back to the shop where I bought it. I called the shop back and told them what I was told and they said "sorry, there is nothing we can do."

This incident was what finally set me on the path of shopping online. I found Scubatoys.com and called to order something. While I was on the phone talking to Larry (one of the owners,) I mentioned this problem I was having with my Aeris BCD. I did not know Larry was an Aeris dealer... but he actually told me he did a lot of business with Aeris and that I was welcome to send my problem BCD back to him and he'd send me out a new one. WHAT?

That's right... I didn't buy it from him and he still helped me with my problem. I literally had a new BCD at my door before I had shipped the old one pack to him. That is the best service I've received in my 40 years of life on this planet.

I have worked hard at modeling my new dive business after that type of business model - and I'm quite certain that others are out there doing the very same. We are the few - the proud - the dive centers who are adapting and overcoming the challenges presented by the internet.

I tell this story with many thanks to Larry and Scubatoys... and I only hope that we can provide this same excellence in sales and service to our customers that Larry and Joe have provided to theirs.

When that LDS smirks at you... feel confident you can find a new LDS... even if it's a few miles away... who is selling you fully authorized gear with full manufacturers warranty at great prices.

All the best... Dive Safe - Save Smart!

 

[CamG]

Greetings from inland Indiana! This has been an interesting and thought provoking thread. I have very limited experience in the Dive Industry, however I do have retail / business experience. Sales and instruction are hand and hand to separate the two is irresponsible. Students always ask, observe what the instructor wears and why? This is just the way it is. At that point there is a great teaching moment if it is taken advantage of to guide gear purchases and talk of pro's and con's. Is there something wrong with that? I have had the privilege of having a great relationship with a dive shop owner, who is a awesome person as well as a retailer. He has many times provided service that was nothing less than amazing! From some of the testimonials I am sure there are internet retailers out there with similar business practices. I think that it really comes down to character and individual code of ethics. Let's face it there are people out there who make honest, ethical retailers job incredibly difficult.
Instructional costs have been explained very well on the thread, if you work along side a instructor it becomes very obvious they do what they do because it is their passion and love. Passing on the sport to new divers is the reward and of coarse being in the water every week end! I was a little price shocked till I became aware of just what it takes: time, gear, schedule issues. It became real to me when I started to assist training paying fuel, fixing gear, scheduling classes,etc. there is more to it than just what meets the eye! If there are new divers reading this , please think of some of these comments. Diving is a truly a unbelievable experience that is life changing if you let it. If you feel the call, get started on your way to training divers!
I hope the OP has a better time diving with his or her own gear, I know I did! CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!

 

[Bob Vincent]

You know, one of the things that amazes me (has from the beginning, and continues to do so) is why people are willing to teach diving for nothing, or near nothing. The DMs at the shop where I got certified get precisely NOTHING for their time and effort (except some gear discounts, and some of those aren't impressive) and yet they show up week after week to help with classes. I don't know what the instructors make, but it's very little. Even at the high end -- When I took Fundies, I sat down and calculated what the instructor made and divided it by the hours he spent with us, and he made about $10 an hour per student. I won't work for that much money, and there are a lot more people around with my skills than there are with us.

Honestly, I wish shops could charge more for classes, and pay their instructors, and make the classes longer and use better gear and more pool time and have higher standards. But if the average diver is like the OP (and to an extent like me, when I decided to get certified), the amount of money they're willing to spend for a class is so far below what it would actually COST to teach a quality class with quality gear and quality, paid instruction, that the shops literally cannot afford to do it, because the student numbers would be so low.

You have a great point here.

When I was teaching for Underwater Sports I owned my own company so Instructing was fun and not to make money to live on. But at the time I really think it wasn't to bad. Every year we traded in our equipment reg, octo, bc, guages for new gear then what we traded went into rental. They wanted us to be examples for students. Anything else we had to pay 10% over cost. We'd get to pick two trips a year we'd run, and of course would be at no charge. These trips were the nice trips such as Rotan, Belize etc. Besides 1 or 2 smaller trips like Jenny Springs or the Great Lakes.

At the lake everything was free except for food and drink. We took one of the Shops vans and charged the gas to the shops credit card. We recieved $250.00 dollars for completion of the course (classroom / pool) Then at the lake for training (cert's) we recieved $25.00 a head. In those days in was nothing to have classes with 20+ students. Our DM's paid 10% over cost for equipment. They'd ride to the lake in the shop van. Of course their rooms was free at the lake. The DM's that did alot of training sometimes got to go on trips at no charge the same as instructors. When we had a large group.

It was nothing on a weekend to be running 4 and 5 different classes. One or two OW an AOW, Rescue, Night, Deep are whatever with a +/-100 students most of the time. It was really cool to have 5 and 6 instrutors and around 20 +/- DM's at the lake on a weekend.

But sadly not enough to live on a full time bases.

 

[Island Style]

I had the exact opposite experience here in Hawaii. My PADI Open Water Certification cost $300 and included all rental equipment (ScubaPro BC's and Regulators) and the boat dive...my instructor was awesome and we only had 3 students taking the course...

The equipment was in great shape! For our boat dive we were issued ScubaPro KnightHawk BC's with the Air 2 and MK25/S550...prior to the boat dive, we used a Vest style of BC and the Aqualung Legend...their philosophy was to set us up with very good, but differently styled equipment so we could be better informed in our purchase decision...

I can't wait to get back in the water...now to buy the BC and Regulator...argh...$$$$$

 

[liaodrake]

I work for a local dive shop to me, and hear story like this all the time. one of the first things I do is give potential student my instructors number, and the number for PADI so that they can call to find out about him before paying for anything.

one of our competitors runs a PADI OpenWater for $99 CAN. but everything is extra; books, rentals, PIC Card, Open Water Dives, ETC... They also have you sign a contract stating that you will only purchase equipment from them. Its the most spun thing I have ever seen.

but as said before, Lesson Learned.

 

[reefdiver1960]

I guess on perspective is that when all is said and done, this was a business deal and you did your part, did they do theirs? I imagine that when you paid your fees, you expected properly functioning equipment, etc. I think that people forget that when money changes hands, it becomes a business transaction and both sides should receive egual value.