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Latent organizational weakness

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by Craig Myers, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Craig Myers

    Craig Myers Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Pickens SC
    I am in no way calling myself a subject matter expert when it comes to diving. When looking at my credentials I've only been diving a year. With that I want to lead into a concern of mine with an individual I have dove with on several occasions, and the actions I have taken to mitigate risks associated with the individual.

    Myself and three of my friends know this individual and it all started when we started our advanced classes and in our stress and rescue class. This person consistently drops weights (forgets to clip them in) has forgotten to connect his bcd inflator hose and jumped in the water and started to sink like a rock, etc. I am completely aware of checking your buddy and in my case I am over cautious when it comes to pre dive inspections. I understand I am in know way a technical diver, but in that being said I check everything, I lightly bend hoses to check for degradation, I visually inspect o rings, dry breath all regs and watch my spg, tap on the spg to see if the needle isn't stuck, double check all connections and when in the water we check for leaks before we descend etc.

    So we noticed this individuals apparent lack of attention to detail and we all check him out before a dive. We are all genuinely concerned for his safety. I have spoken to this person on several occasions about their issues to know avail. I have spoken to the dive shop owner and the answer I get is "he's just a millennial". This concerns me to the point of asking you all. It seems to me that dive shops in general just want to push "numbers" through for a profit and not genuinely take the time to make sure the individuals they teach have the processes and procedures down pat. Why aren't more stringent checks taught? Why isn't there an over emphasis for a better safety culture? I am not necessarily blaming the dive shop moreover I am blaming the organization for not having more stringent standards. What are your opinions? Or am I being over cautious?
  2. Marie13

    Marie13 Great Lakes Mermaid ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Great Lakes
    Your only recourse is to stay the heck away from this diver. Refuse to dive with him. If you feel he’s unsafe, that’s your option.

    There’s one diver who is a friend of a friend. I’ve dived with her a few times at the local quarry. She has some unsafe practices. Won’t listen. The last time I dived with her she was leading to get nav practice. She was going a totally incorrect direction to get to our intended destination. She wouldn’t stop. Wouldn’t respond to us in anyway. I finally got her attention after grabbing her fin and refusing to let go, and we surfaced. She proceeded to start screaming as soon as we surfaced. Wouldn’t listen to anyone. She was right, etc. An instructor on the surface nearby with a student used this diver as an example of what not to do.

    That was the last time I dived with her. And I told her why.
  3. scrane

    scrane Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Boise, ID.
    At a point it is best to MYOB.
    markmud, Manatee Diver and Nays like this.
  4. almostDIR

    almostDIR Barracuda

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Finland
    those should be normal safety procedures for every dive, including all recreational dives. It is also much easier to check these thing on surface than underwater.

    anyway, how do you generally do buddy checks and does this person first check all by himself and says all OK and then buddies double check too?
    I think it would be easier for him to remember the mistakes if he first thinks all is checked and then the buddy clearly points out what was missing and needs to be corrected. then doing the check again from the start until he does everything correctly. Soon enough he should be so annoyed about the repetitive corrections and checks that he would be more careful himself and do less mistakes from the start.

    You should have a rule to fully power inflate the bc ALWAYS before entering the water. it is easy to see then if the hose is connected or not and that the tank valve is at least a little open. for that he will not sink immediately and drown by jumping into water with the hose not connected and the tank valve off.

    MYOB is not working when someone compromises safety. unsafe behaviour needs to be corrected asap
    wnissen and shoredivr like this.
  5. seeker242

    seeker242 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Pompano Beach, FL
    What kind of appropriate checks are not taught? People actually following what they are taught, that's an entirely different issue.
    rhwestfall and shoredivr like this.
  6. Neilwood

    Neilwood Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Scotland
    As @Marie13 says, if they won't accept constructive criticism then you are probably best not diving with them. Sometimes though it comes down to how things are explained to people and knowing how to push them in the right direction - some need gentle treatment, others need bluntness and the remainder need placed on the "never, ever dive with them" list.

    Count it as a risk assessment - you know from experience that the risk are high and the likelihood of an incident is high therefore the risk to you as a buddy are high (you will be the one that has to bail them out). At some point, you have to make the call not to dive.

    Anyone should feel free to call a dive at any point if they are not happy - if you are risking my health, I WILL call the dive even before it starts.
    kablooey likes this.
  7. kablooey

    kablooey Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: San Diego
    Try to be a role model and a mentor, not a critic whenever possible.
    You'll be better respected within the sport, and you'll feel better about yourself.

    If that doesn't work for you, develop a cadre of dive buddies you trust and only dive with them.
    Let other divers enjoy their journey.

    kelemvor and Coztick like this.
  8. Nays

    Nays Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: The West USA
    Stuff happens. Get over it.
    One year diving? Lot's still to learn.
    Twenty years diving? Lot's still to learn.

    We have a local saying about surf entries that may apply here... "Everyone gets tumbled, everyone gets humbled".
  9. diverrex

    diverrex Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: LA - North Hollywood
    Some people are happy to dive casually. Others take diving very seriously. Over time most divers find buddies whose style is consistent with theirs. Personally I’d rather not dive with the individual you describe. Whether the shop or whoever is leading the charters does anything about it is a different issue. Dive shops/operators/charters have different attitudes and rules. I know some who won’t allow solo for instance, others don’t care. Ultimately the individual diver is responsible for their own safety.
  10. Craig Myers

    Craig Myers Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Pickens SC
    My apologies for not further elaborating on that statement. In our initial OW class. Never have I heard to bend and role a hose to look for cracks etc, never have I heard in the initial class to inspect tank o-rings, never have I heard in the initial class to dry breath the reg and look at the spg. Etc. However they did emphasize to dry breath the regs and all the other checks. These other fundamentals were referenced in later classes. I just feel that if human errors that I mentioned are not just noticed by me, but others and brought to the attention of the responsible staff why would that individual be allowed to further progress to advanced or even stress and rescue if they cant identify and address their issues? A good tool we use where I work it a laminated card call a TAM. Take a minute it is a checklist to quickly run through and identify potential issues/hazards. It would be nice to have a small card like that for divers to carry and reference so the forgetful ones can read through. I am not typing this to flame, criticize, etc. I am just genuinely concerned about the safety culture. It just seems like the "recreational" aspect of recreational diving is over emphasized as "fun". To which case it is, but it should as well be safe.
    Esprise Me likes this.

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