Aquabella
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I was wondering how you would go about learning these skills as well if the rec drift diving course isn't enough.
Gulp, it sure isn't bowling.
Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau
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I was wondering how you would go about learning these skills as well if the rec drift diving course isn't enough.
Gulp, it sure isn't bowling.
OP
detroit diver
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Here's my friends comments to some of your questions:
"As far as her experience, I don't know.... Probably your typical
tropical diver with 100 or so dives.... She had her own gear and it was a pricey trip....so you'd think only experienced people would want to go... But there was a couple on the trip that only had TWELVE dives, so I can't categorically say she had an "expert" level of dive experience. I don't know how much education/level of certification she had either. Nor do I know how long she had been diving.
As far as pre-dive briefing.... The divemaster told us depth, time,
exit procedures, etc.
He drew a picture on the dry erase board. We were dropped off in the blue, then descended immediately to the wall. The wall was like diving Cozumel. It was really easy. It was going over the crest of the plateau that was the problem. During the briefing, the divemaster told us to empty our BCDs and get ready to hook. Once hooked, adding a little BCD would keep us from beating on the bottom. And then the exit procedure: a tender would pick us up at the surface. We were to use our safety sausage because the surf was so wavy (around 6' swells).
Everyone had one and also a dive alert.
What was absent in the briefing is that it's OK to abort the dive if
one were nervous about hooking in. Or what to do if one couldn't become unhooked. (they didn't require a cutting tool)
In the briefing, we knew we would have a current. But it was nothing like the briefing once we got down at depth. Consequently, absent was the high current drift diving problem-solving in the briefing. (the divemaster could've discussed losing a mask,etc. No one had ever hooked in before, so it certainly would've been worthwhile to discuss)."
"As far as her experience, I don't know.... Probably your typical
tropical diver with 100 or so dives.... She had her own gear and it was a pricey trip....so you'd think only experienced people would want to go... But there was a couple on the trip that only had TWELVE dives, so I can't categorically say she had an "expert" level of dive experience. I don't know how much education/level of certification she had either. Nor do I know how long she had been diving.
As far as pre-dive briefing.... The divemaster told us depth, time,
exit procedures, etc.
He drew a picture on the dry erase board. We were dropped off in the blue, then descended immediately to the wall. The wall was like diving Cozumel. It was really easy. It was going over the crest of the plateau that was the problem. During the briefing, the divemaster told us to empty our BCDs and get ready to hook. Once hooked, adding a little BCD would keep us from beating on the bottom. And then the exit procedure: a tender would pick us up at the surface. We were to use our safety sausage because the surf was so wavy (around 6' swells).
Everyone had one and also a dive alert.
What was absent in the briefing is that it's OK to abort the dive if
one were nervous about hooking in. Or what to do if one couldn't become unhooked. (they didn't require a cutting tool)
In the briefing, we knew we would have a current. But it was nothing like the briefing once we got down at depth. Consequently, absent was the high current drift diving problem-solving in the briefing. (the divemaster could've discussed losing a mask,etc. No one had ever hooked in before, so it certainly would've been worthwhile to discuss)."
Anyone can call a dive at anytime for any or no reason. This is next to to the most fundamental training aspect of diving. The other is of course........
The divemaster could of also reviewed OW skills for everyone and held their hand the entire dive. Come on! Get real.....how many procedures does he have to go over? Sounds like he covered everything.
If the divers weren't familiar with the hooking method then they should of spoke up....well what happens if....blah blah...
The guy even drew a diagram. Sounds like he did a good briefing....maybe procedures about the hooking could have been clearer, but it is the diver's responsibility to ask if uncertain....if nothing was said then why should the DM think anything is wrong?
If the divers weren't familiar with the hooking method then they should of spoke up....well what happens if....blah blah...
The guy even drew a diagram. Sounds like he did a good briefing....maybe procedures about the hooking could have been clearer, but it is the diver's responsibility to ask if uncertain....if nothing was said then why should the DM think anything is wrong?
since when is it common practice in a briefing to tell a diver that its ok to abort??aborting is common sense that is up to the diver..i know that there are divers that because of their egos..yes i said egos..and some do definitly have those..they dont abort a dive because of what they think other divers will think..and it has happened over and over again that has taken a divers death..if i or anyone im diving with wishes to abort i would never ever have a problem with it..i couldnt care less how badly i wanted to dive that dive..whats safe for my partner is safe for me..this was a diver that had plenty of dives under her belt and it just proves that no matter how many you have something can happen..blaming the boat owner is ludricous..im not saying that hes perfect...if a diver has a question thats not being adressed then its the responsibility of that diver to ask..
MASS-Diver
Contributor
You have got to be kidding me with this reef hooking crap. I can't believe that's an acceptable practice. Aside from the fact that I'm sure it's beat the heck out of the poor reef, any time you are diving with lines of any type it makes the dive much more dangerous. Working with lines requries a lot a caution and awarness. Diving in currents (even in clear tropical waters) is an advanced skill, being wealthy enough to dive these places does mean you have the skills. It doesn't matter how much PADI advertises that how anyone, even can yoru grandmother, can dive in the Tropics, the last time I checked, breathing that water will drown you just as fast the 40deg here in NE.
It seems like every vacation diver I talk to has a million close stories and just as many 'the time I accdidently smashed a 100 year coral head" stories. Rich, out of shape people, that don't train all year round go on vacation and attempt these very difficult dives......it's a problem.
Heck of job by the nurse to try to save her BTW......
It seems like every vacation diver I talk to has a million close stories and just as many 'the time I accdidently smashed a 100 year coral head" stories. Rich, out of shape people, that don't train all year round go on vacation and attempt these very difficult dives......it's a problem.
Heck of job by the nurse to try to save her BTW......
RICHinNC
Contributor
Thanks ORing for adding those items ref my post....
I dont believe you can have it both ways. You are either overall responsible as a business person for your product or you are not. In this case the product was taking people of varying skills to a place that undoubtedly exceeded many of the divers skills. Yes, IMHO that is negligence.
The dive briefing could have been better by emphasizing what could go wrong and what the corrective action would have been....but most dive briefings I have seen are woefully lacking.
Couple all this with the history of this company and a definite pattern surfaces. No telling what else has occurred that never made it to this board or the news in general.
jepuskar, if you are happy with this group then dive with them all you want. I defend your right to have a differing opion. But as for me, I wouldnt get near this dive operation if the trip was free and a nice companion was added to my cabin!@!!
I dont believe you can have it both ways. You are either overall responsible as a business person for your product or you are not. In this case the product was taking people of varying skills to a place that undoubtedly exceeded many of the divers skills. Yes, IMHO that is negligence.
The dive briefing could have been better by emphasizing what could go wrong and what the corrective action would have been....but most dive briefings I have seen are woefully lacking.
Couple all this with the history of this company and a definite pattern surfaces. No telling what else has occurred that never made it to this board or the news in general.
jepuskar, if you are happy with this group then dive with them all you want. I defend your right to have a differing opion. But as for me, I wouldnt get near this dive operation if the trip was free and a nice companion was added to my cabin!@!!
Thanks for taking interest in my personal safety. 
I have seen people like yourself on this board plenty of times, and in some instances I would take your position, in my earlier trolling days.
I have never dove with PH so I don't support anybody unless I am happy with my personal experience. Your problem is you are tying this incident into that incident in Belize a few years back...which is totally irrelevant to this lady dying.
Maybe you had some friends on that boat or maybe the trip was thru your dive shop, or maybe you were on that boat..whatever the reason your taking such a stronge opinion on PH....you really need to step back and take a look at who is responsible for your safety! So Rich, who is responsible for your safety?
Hmmm, Rich and Peter Hughes go for a nice ride in the country. Peter Hughes is driving the car and Rich is in the passenger seat. Both drivers have their seat belts on. Peter stops the car in the middle of the road. Rich undoes his seatbelt and opens up the car door and steps out...as he does this a passing car hits him and kills him.
According to you Rich, Peter is responsible for your death, but I think you are! You stepped out of the car without looking, you stepped out into traffic. Should Peter not of parked in the middle of road, yes, but should you of gotten out of the car without looking..NO!
Some people will argue that Peter should of never parked in the middle of the road thus causing Rich's death. If you take this position Rich, then don't ever go boat diving again! YOU are responsible for YOUR life, not Peter Hughes!
If Peter would of shoved you out of the car into the road then yes, Peter is responsible for your death. Peter didn't shove you out of that car and Peter didn't make that lady get on a dive boat.
It's tough to swallow isn't it Rich! SCUBA diving has a lot of responsibility.
I have seen people like yourself on this board plenty of times, and in some instances I would take your position, in my earlier trolling days.
I have never dove with PH so I don't support anybody unless I am happy with my personal experience. Your problem is you are tying this incident into that incident in Belize a few years back...which is totally irrelevant to this lady dying.
Maybe you had some friends on that boat or maybe the trip was thru your dive shop, or maybe you were on that boat..whatever the reason your taking such a stronge opinion on PH....you really need to step back and take a look at who is responsible for your safety! So Rich, who is responsible for your safety?
Hmmm, Rich and Peter Hughes go for a nice ride in the country. Peter Hughes is driving the car and Rich is in the passenger seat. Both drivers have their seat belts on. Peter stops the car in the middle of the road. Rich undoes his seatbelt and opens up the car door and steps out...as he does this a passing car hits him and kills him.
According to you Rich, Peter is responsible for your death, but I think you are! You stepped out of the car without looking, you stepped out into traffic. Should Peter not of parked in the middle of road, yes, but should you of gotten out of the car without looking..NO!
Some people will argue that Peter should of never parked in the middle of the road thus causing Rich's death. If you take this position Rich, then don't ever go boat diving again! YOU are responsible for YOUR life, not Peter Hughes!
If Peter would of shoved you out of the car into the road then yes, Peter is responsible for your death. Peter didn't shove you out of that car and Peter didn't make that lady get on a dive boat.
It's tough to swallow isn't it Rich! SCUBA diving has a lot of responsibility.
ibnygator
Contributor
but I've done ocean dives with 5 or 6 foot waves on a 34 foot boat and it was a physical challenge to grab that ladder as it flew in and out of the water and to be able to get back on the boat. Add to that the rest of these conditions:
AND the fact that no one in the group had participated in this reef destroying hooking activity, and this was an accident waiting to happen. They may be lucky they only lost one.
:upset:
AND the fact that no one in the group had participated in this reef destroying hooking activity, and this was an accident waiting to happen. They may be lucky they only lost one.
:upset:
OP
detroit diver
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Jep,
You can do better than that as an example.
Jumping off a boat into an UNKNOWN situation is a whole lot different than getting out of a car in the middle of the road. You drive your car every day and had a year of practice when you got your driver's license.
Maybe we should make it mandatory to practice for a year with an instuctor or knowledgeable diver before we get our license??
You can do better than that as an example.
Jumping off a boat into an UNKNOWN situation is a whole lot different than getting out of a car in the middle of the road. You drive your car every day and had a year of practice when you got your driver's license.
Maybe we should make it mandatory to practice for a year with an instuctor or knowledgeable diver before we get our license??
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