Solved: LGBTQIA people. Is there a need for a sub-forum?

[El Hefe 612]

Okay… First, I know I'm new here. Second, I'm genuinely curious. And third, I read the entire 18-page thread of the "LGBTQ Divers?" question. As a openly gay, married man I would love to have a place to connect with other gay men, women, and like-minded individuals to discuss dive travel opportunities, to find dive buddies without having to worry about whether or not they might have a problem with me, and to feel comfortable talking about things that might impact us.


If possible, I'd like to have a board created under Non-Geographic Clubs called:


LGBTQIA Divers and Their Friends


I have spent the past week-and-a-half searching the internet (and this board) for such clubs, and I was surprised how lacking they were. It's been six years since the original question was posted in the thread referenced above. I know if I'm interested, that there are probably many others who would be too, but they may just be afraid to ask. Many of the responses in the thread above were not very understanding of what it is like living as an LGBTQIA individual in a predominantly heteronormative global society. Having such a space is not about excluding anyone, it's about having space where we don't have to worry about being who we are and can focus on what we love - diving (among many other things).


Thanks!

 

[doctormike]

Many of the comments here - I'm assuming inadvertently and with good intentions - underscore why an LGBT diver might enjoy having a subforum. Some are just snarky, and I won't bother responding to them.

The best definition of privilege that I ever read was "works on my machine" for people. To those who don't know that phrase, it's a computer thing - yes, the user is having a problem, but since the system seems to be working fine for tech support, there is no problem.

I'm guessing that everyone who doesn't see the need for the forum is straight. Sometimes, it's not about us.

 

[doctormike]

If one googles,there's no shortage of LBGT sites already out there?

Gay scuba diving is found at www.UnderseaX.com

I googled rebreathers and sidemount diving. Turns out there is no shortage of sites for those either. Why do we need them here?

 

[doctormike]

He's not interested in hanging out there. THIS is the preeminent SCUBA diving forum. Not THAT. Live and let live. Why would anyone even care about this? Don't like it, stay away. I find the pub to be objectionable. Ergo I don't go there. I don't bleat that we should not have a neo-fascist political section in a SCUBA forum. (Besides, it's good for Pete's business and helps keep this free for everyone else). There are plenty of alternatives for that too...no? At least this new section will have a diving focus.

Amen.

I can't stand the Pub, and I hate the fact that when I load the "new posts" screen, half of what I see are Pub topics. What does any of that have to do with diving? But I also understand why it's here...

 

[Diver0001]

"Need help carrying my equipment"

Well... I wouldn't say "need help" (yet) but if I could get some DMC to hump my equipment around in exchange for training them as a DM then I'd sign up for that..

Actually... it might take more than one.... LOL

He's not interested in hanging out there. THIS is the preeminent SCUBA diving forum. Not THAT. Live and let live.

It is obviously not the intention to politicize Scubaboard but @tridacna is right. THIS forum is where people go ... and should feel free to go.

The user base comes from all walks of life and all political, cultural and religious orientations. In principle everyone who enjoys the sport and wants to interact with other divers on a world wide forum is welcome. There are obviously limits to behaviour but that is part of living in an internet world. When you put someone behind a keyboard and make them anonymous their responses can become very.... "primal". Hence the need for moderators.

I find it very interesting to see how opinions on this are split. Obviously the poll is not statistically representative but it does show that the LGBTQ community is not unconditionally accepted, which could be an argument in favour of a "space" for this cultural minority.

We created a space for women for this very reason (a minority in the diving population) and it's actually fairly well used. My guess is that an LGBTQ forum may be less popular than the women's forum but equally valuable to the people who feel a need to share their thoughts without concern for bigotry clouding the message.

R..

 

[flyboy08]

He's not interested in hanging out there. THIS is the preeminent SCUBA diving forum. Not THAT. Live and let live. Why would anyone even care about this? Don't like it, stay away. I find the pub to be objectionable. Ergo I don't go there. I don't bleat that we should not have a neo-fascist political section in a SCUBA forum. (Besides, it's good for Pete's business and helps keep this free for everyone else). There are plenty of alternatives for that too...no? At least this new section will have a diving focus.

As in my first post, I have no problem adding a sub forum...I was just pointing out that there exits many sites already that cater to his request.

 

[boulderjohn]

Interesting that there are 7 no votes, but no negative comments, which says more to me than the yes votes.

Given a few more days, this issue has grown. I made a rough count of the number of posters (not counting multiple posts by an individual) who made positive comments, and it almost equals the number of positive votes. I found only a couple of disapproving comments, and they do not seem to be strongly disapproving. Yet, at the time I am writing, the negative votes outnumber the positive ones. It seems strange, but I have seen the same phenomenon in other areas of life.

A couple of years ago there was a survey done in the cave divers forum about making a change to the line setup in a specific cave. The people who wanted it changed gave reasons for the change. The people who wanted it to stay the way it was started with a couple of reasons that were thoroughly dispelled as invalid by those who wanted it to change, and those reasons were never mentioned again. Eventually I wrote a post in which I pointed out that the people who were suggesting a change had listed good reasons for the change, and made a list of about 8 reasons that had not in any way been refuted by anyone who wanted things to remain the same. I said that it seemed to me that those who opposed the change had an obligation to give a reason, any reason, for wanting things to be the way they were. My post didn't make a difference. The people who were opposed to change continued to oppose without stating a reason. The majority of people responding opposed the change, and things are now still the way they always were.

I was genuinely curious then about the fact that people could hold a strong opinion without feeling a need to explain it, and I am curious about that now as well.

 

[Crazy_Canuck]

I am not gay. and I voted no. I have 2 brothers both gay and in relationships with other men, I have no problem with that. I know there are three or 4 of my dive group that are gay and I have no problem diving with them or socializing when the dives are done. but I am afraid the sub forum entitled LGBT etc, can be degrading to the people that occupy it. if you have a sexual or spiritual preference and you think it might interfere with your diving then speak up when appropriate. I don't discriminate due to sexual, political, religion or even body size. I dive with those who can dive and dive (in my opinion) safely. I believe most divers are here to dive and not use this group as a meet and greet club for their personal interests. my 2 cents.........Flame suit on........

 

[RainPilot]

I am not gay. and I voted no. I have 2 brothers both gay and in relationships with other men, I have no problem with that. I know there are three or 4 of my dive group that are gay and I have no problem diving with them or socializing when the dives are done. but I am afraid the sub forum entitled LGBT etc, can be degrading to the people that occupy it. if you have a sexual or spiritual preference and you think it might interfere with your diving then speak up when appropriate. I don't discriminate due to sexual, political, religion or even body size. I dive with those who can dive and dive (in my opinion) safely. I believe most divers are here to dive and not use this group as a meet and greet club for their personal interests. my 2 cents.........Flame suit on........

No flame suit required. Quick thought experiment though.

If this was any other special interest group asking for a subforum e.g. Schoolteachers, airline pilots, serving military, people who live far from the ocean etc would we even be having this discussion?

Actually I invite you to look at the non-regional dive clubs etc that already populate the bottom half of the homepage for an idea how that has been answered in the past.

My take? The members of this board are my dive family. Some cool, some weird (@RayfromTX) some I really don't like but all still family.

If one of my family asks for something that has literally zero cost or impact for me that I can choose to ignore or take part in or use to learn or interact in ANY WAY I CHOOSE TO then why on Earth would I say no?

 

[RyanT]

I think Steve C and Crazy_Canuck were suggesting that as divers, we're a pretty inclusive bunch. As such, there shouldn't be a need for such a forum.

But...

I'm guessing that everyone who doesn't see the need for the forum is straight. Sometimes, it's not about us.

doctormike's comment nailed it. Unless you've experienced discrimination for being who you are, you probably don't get it. If you aren't interested in an LGBTQ forum, don't participate. Seems really simple.

 

[doctormike]

If you keep adding letters to your acronym you're gonna need a wider forum, or at least more pages.

They aren't just letters, they are people.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant this as a well intentioned critique of messaging and framing, but it does underscore the reason why some divers might want a subforum.