Life for 1 vs. Death for 2

[FuzzyNutz]

So, a thread based on another thread got me thinking... and I'll apologize now for making you think about this... but I think it'll bring up some nice discussions and maybe a bit of humor, however sadistic it may be

What would you do if there was a problem with your buddy and you KNEW for a FACT that there was no way BOTH of you were making it out alive... forcing you to make the ultimate decision of leaving them to only save yourself or staying so you both die together?

Do you think you would do the same for a stranger vs. a spouse/parent/child/relative/close friend?

If you decided to stay and they try to make you go, what would you do?

Now, imagine if you chose to leave them for dead and they physically fought you to last it out... could you look that person in the eye and fight back?

I guess this is what so many movies and books play on, is not a unique idea to scuba, and a classic conflict of greed vs the human connection (ohhhhh, a horrible choice of words, I dunno what to call it...? you know what I mean, lol).

For me, honestly, if it's a stranger.... I think they're screwed, even if they fought back. I'd probably feel like crap for the rest of my life, but I think I could live with it. If it's not a stranger, I think I could only leave if they told me to in a not-so-frazzled state of mind... otherwise, I think guilt would take the best of me and there would be 2 bodies down there.

 

[TMHeimer]

I think I would do the same as you. Someone told me that he was deep inside a wreck and heard "knocking" from somewhere below. He said he absolutely knew he did not have enough gas left to even think about trying to find the guy, so he exited. He said he can still hear that guy knocking.

 

[redacted]

What would you do if there was a problem with your buddy and you KNEW for a FACT that there was no way BOTH of you were making it out alive... forcing you to make the ultimate decision of leaving them to only save yourself or staying so you both die together? /QUOTE]

too bad such decisions may have to be made in the much more likely situation where you just can't be sure. i would expect it is an easier decision if you KNOW FOR A FACT.

 

[DandyDon]

What did your Rescue class teach you on this...??

 

[FuzzyNutz]

I think I would do the same as you. Someone told me that he was deep inside a wreck and heard "knocking" from somewhere below. He said he absolutely knew he did not have enough gas left to even think about trying to find the guy, so he exited. He said he can still hear that guy knocking.

OMG... my gut and heart just sank... I can't even imagine... WOW...

What did your Rescue class teach you on this...??

Oh as soon as I hit the submit thread button, I knew I'd be called out on that! haha, damn you Don! I've been thinking about exactly that, and I'm glad you asked, because now I'm sort of forced to answer (by the way, I'm slightly unclear) - then I will get critiqued and/or bashed, but I will learn from it. So bring it! (this sort of thing was one of my favorite things in my rescue course... when the instructor would give me all kinds of scenarios to think over and decide what to do in what order and why.)

First, rescue has taught me to make the preparations to avoid this situation, to plan the dive, select the appropriate gear, have adequate/ample backup gear, and make sure it's all in proper working order. I believe in the situation I described, where at least one person WILL die (not possible to leave and come back to save or resuscitate them), rescue has taught me to save myself (after, of course, exhausting all other alternatives). What rescue didn't teach me (or specifically discuss), was how to look a loved one in the eye, say good bye, and turn my back to them so they can die. I don't think this is a matter of rescue, but an instance of suicide. Would suicide be worth it to not live through life with that much guilt on your shoulders? I'm gonna go with No. ...But I still wouldn't be able to turn my back.

 

[danvolker]

So, a thread based on another thread got me thinking... and I'll apologize now for making you think about this... but I think it'll bring up some nice discussions and maybe a bit of humor, however sadistic it may be

What would you do if there was a problem with your buddy and you KNEW for a FACT that there was no way BOTH of you were making it out alive... forcing you to make the ultimate decision of leaving them to only save yourself or staying so you both die together?

Do you think you would do the same for a stranger vs. a spouse/parent/child/relative/close friend?

If you decided to stay and they try to make you go, what would you do?

Now, imagine if you chose to leave them for dead and they physically fought you to last it out... could you look that person in the eye and fight back?

I guess this is what so many movies and books play on, is not a unique idea to scuba, and a classic conflict of greed vs the human connection (ohhhhh, a horrible choice of words, I dunno what to call it...? you know what I mean, lol).

For me, honestly, if it's a stranger.... I think they're screwed, even if they fought back. I'd probably feel like crap for the rest of my life, but I think I could live with it. If it's not a stranger, I think I could only leave if they told me to in a not-so-frazzled state of mind... otherwise, I think guilt would take the best of me and there would be 2 bodies down there.

This is a "movie" scenario, not based on what good divers should or would actually do.
There is no situation my buddy and I could get into, where your scenario could possibly play out....The discussion you want to create, creates a great excuse for poor divers with bad planning, who are self indulgent and the type of divers that "should be" shown as the failures of the training agencies.

Planning, or what we get ourselves into, is moronic in the movie scenario.

 

[superspeed]

While I agree with you 100% Dan, there is no dive me or anyone i would ever consider diving with would be in this situation it is not to say it would never happen. Caves and Wrecks being a prime example as plenty of divers get in over their heads when it comes to penetration it would not be to hard to assume that at some point a diver/group of divers would come upon someone who was in trouble and the diver/team did not have the means to get all divers out alive and would have to make this choice.

In a perfect world where everyone uses their head before diving this would never be a problem...but in that world only people with cave cards would be in cave...etc.

 

[FuzzyNutz]

too bad such decisions may have to be made in the much more likely situation where you just can't be sure. i would expect it is an easier decision if you KNOW FOR A FACT.

Oh that's just awful! I can't remember what book it was in (popular non-fiction diving book), but there were 2 guys that made it out of that situation alive... but the catcher is, only 1 of them knew they might not make it. Diver X lost his air supply to a failure in a cave, diver Y donated as they made their way out, but he was very low on gas and was very unsure of them both being able to breath to the exit. He kept that bit to himself and they finally made it out. He goes on to say, "now THAT'S diving!"

 

[Kilili]

I think you left one out of the equation, sacrificing your life so that the other person may live. That one's a bit harder.

As it stands, seems pointless for two to die when one could have lived.

As for what "good divers" would actually do, I think we really would have to be in the situation to actually know what each of us would do. Thankfully, most of us are never so tasked.

 

[Searcaigh]

The only relative I dive with is my daughter, I would put her life before mine, I have two close friends that I dive with, that choice would be difficult as with some good people I have met on this forum and not dived with yet. If it was an Instabuddy they would be screwed as PanSiren so nicely puts it.

Made me remember about a climbing incident where one guy had to cut the rope to save himself from being dragged into a crevasse, amazingly the guy at the end of the rope did survive and found his way out, but the guy at the top who cut the rope was ostracized by the climbing community for years.