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Lightest BP/W system for recreational single tank system?

Discussion in 'Deep Sea Supply' started by andy2667, Mar 5, 2016.

  1. cool_hardware52

    cool_hardware52 Dive Equipment Manufacturer

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    Tony, forgive the mistake on your name, no offense intended. I'm pretty confident that if your plates are not DSS they are not kydex. Would you not prefer to be accurate in your description?

    "Kydex" is not generic for "plastic back plate"

    Tobin
     
  2. RayfromTX

    RayfromTX Student Of Gas Mixology Staff Member ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Hill Country of Central TX
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    I have just received my Kydex plate (large) 29.8 ounces, LCD 20 wing with inflater hose 39 ounces and the entire rig trimmed comes in at 6 lbs 11 ounces. I'm long but built for speed not comfort so there was a good bit of strap trimming on the cutting room floor.

    I'm 6' 2 1/2" with a long torso. If I had it to do over I would get the long plate but I was on the edge and opted for the shorter size for the carry-on ease of packing. When adjusted to carry the weight on my hips, I can't reach the top of the plate as is suggested. This may not be a problem and is a rule of thumb but I would order differently had I known. It will probably be ok.

    Now I need to get it in the water and there may be a bit of adjusting but I think it is mighty darn close right now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  3. cool_hardware52

    cool_hardware52 Dive Equipment Manufacturer

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    I have never suggested that plates be sized of located by the diver reaching over their shoulder and touching the top of the plate. IMO this is near useless test for fit, particularly for the single tank diver.

    It is entirely a function of the divers flexibility. I have daughters that can reach one hand over their shoulder and slide their other hand up from their waist and clasp their hands *behind* their back.

    Should the top of their back plate be in the middle of the Thoracic Spine? How about the former power lifter that can barely touch C4-C5?

    A scuba back plate with a Horgarthian harness will never transfer the load to the diver hips effectively. They aren't designed for that. They are designed to be adequate to bear the load out of the water via the shoulder straps, but provide stability to the cylinder in an unobtrusive manner in the water.

    A BP&W is not a Kelty Framed pack with padded hip belt.

    Tobin
     
  4. redacted

    redacted Guest

    If light is what is important then try this:. OxyCheq - OxyCheq Ultra Lite Travel Plate - Black

    I dive one and it works fine for me. When my friends ask for a recomendation, I send them to DSS. So far, four have gone with that recommendation.
     
  5. RayfromTX

    RayfromTX Student Of Gas Mixology Staff Member ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Hill Country of Central TX
    5,834
    5,350
    113
    Actually, I found nothing on your site or in the page of instructions that help with actual adjustments except the last line of the instructions that states, "This is the Basic Rigged Harness, now it needs to be adjusted to fit the diver." I looked at all the videos on your site and none were helpful in making these adjustments. I like your product but I had to look elsewhere to find help in getting some of the weight off the shoulder straps because frankly if my non-powerlifter bony shoulders had to carry the weight of a tank let alone doubles on the non padded straps I'd be looking for a sherpa to get me down to the beach.

    Where should the plate rest in reference to the divers anatomy? How loose should the shoulder straps be? Where should the Drings be located? How tight should the waist belt be and where should it rest? I found the answer to all these questions on other sites. I would love hear your opinion because I have found you are right in the things you have actually told me.
     
  6. cool_hardware52

    cool_hardware52 Dive Equipment Manufacturer

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    DSS back plate and wings and the associated harnesses are designed primarily to perform *in the water* A singles rig with an al 80 and kydex plate should weigh about ~40 lbs, or less. Supporting 40 lbs for limited periods on dry land via the shoulder straps alone is well tolerated by the vast majority of divers without trying to make a scuba BC in to a backpacking frame and harness. Supporting 60-100 lbs for 8-10 hours (not an uncommon load and interval for back packing use) is clearly quite different from carrying 35-45 lbs from the parking lot to water's edge, or to the "gate" on a dive boat.

    If you are concerned about sizing or fit we encourage any prospective buyer or owner to contact us to discuss what is actually required. The DSS website does include recommendation for plate size selection based on the height of the diver.

    The fact remains that a Hogarthian Harness on a BP&W is not designed to carry the weight of the rig on the divers hips. Never has been, and DSS has never been marketed at being capable of doing do so.

    I do routinely recommend www.baue.org as a source for harness adjustment information, the the caveat that "touching the top of your plate" is a nearly useless metric.

    Buy the right plate for your height, and get the harness adjusted so it is 1) Not so tight that donning and doffing is impaired and 2) Not so loose that stability is impaired and the vast majority of divers will be pretty close.

    Tobin
     
  7. RayfromTX

    RayfromTX Student Of Gas Mixology Staff Member ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Hill Country of Central TX
    5,834
    5,350
    113
    The rig is almost 7 lbs. The complete reg set is 4 lbs. The tank and valve and gas is 43 lbs. add a couple of lights and other accessories and you will be around 56 lbs. I bought the plate that you recommended. The site you linked to is one of the sites I found and it says,"As a starting point, place the top of the plate a little below the first pronounced vertebrae at the base of the neck" Do you agree with this?

    I asked you five questions but I didn't get an answer in your response. Should I call you to get help because you seem so busy when I do. You are very knowledgeable. How can I learn what I need to know without annoying you? If you answer my questions here or on your site it would be possible for others to find them without bothering you each time they are searching for adjustment guidelines. It is not often that I come away from a conversation feeling stupid but I'm sure feeling that way in this instance.
     
  8. cool_hardware52

    cool_hardware52 Dive Equipment Manufacturer

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    I did answer your questions. I referred you to the baue website for all questions *except* trying to locate your plate on your body via a metric that is *entirely* a function of individual flexibility.

    The baue site is quite good, and I have no argument with their recommendations regarding dring position, or approximately how tight the harness should be rigged.

    If you have the correct length plate, and rig the harness so that it has an appropriate degree of slack and the waist strap is at your waist the vast majority of divers will be quite close to ideal adjustment.

    The *fine tuning" beyond that point is something each diver must discover on their own. Should a particular dring be moved an inch one way or another? No website or consultation will answer that, only the diver can determine that via a few actual dives.

    1) Use the right size plate.

    2) Do an initial adjustment using the info on the baue site, etc.

    3) Dive it and "tweek" for a few dives.

    4) Avoid trying to make a scuba BP&W distribute load the same as Kelty type framed backpack.

    5) Still have questions? Feel free to call. It's no bother if one has exhausted the 4 items above first.

    Tobin
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
    Mr. Sunday likes this.

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