log book

[Centrals]

I don't have an issue with a simpler dive as a check out dive and understand why operators would ask this of the first dive, however to include many basic skills etc in that check out dive I believe is an insult to most divers. Its like "We know you are certified and have been diving for a number of years, however we want to do our own cert checks before we let you dive" Now if I did a check dive and demonstrated very bad buoyancy control, or perhaps poor fin style or just look a bad diver I could accept further skill checks, however to just do it because we (the operator) do doesn't cut it for me.

You would, however be surprised how many divers are so good (in their own mind), and yet demonstrate very poor ability and thus why many operator do a first dive check dive. But to do a full skill check is way overboard (in my mind) when based on "this is what we do" mentality.

Now in saying that, if perhaps its a very high risk dive with significant danger from local tides/currents etc and a number of previous divers have died/gotten in to trouble previously then I can see the justification. This however (I would suggest) would be a very rare occurrence indeed (if ever).

Cor blimey!!
I don't make the rule. If the operator insist on check out dive(skill test), what are you going to do? There was no point for confrontation. So we took the easy option and complied. No one failed the "test" and we all had a great time. Of course we all laughed at that afterwards.
End of story.

 

[BenjaminF]

I'd just like to point out that the law now states that one can present a dive computer instead of a paper dive log. The idea seems to be that for liability purposes, the dive shops want to be able to say that if something happens, they were not negligent and rented equipment to somebody who didn't remember how to use it.

 

[Peter69_56]

Cor blimey!!
I don't make the rule. If the operator insist on check out dive(skill test), what are you going to do? There was no point for confrontation. So we took the easy option and complied. No one failed the "test" and we all had a great time. Of course we all laughed at that afterwards.
End of story.

I am not critical of you at all and understand. I would have asked why the draconian method and the basis for their over the top checks. But that's just me.

Now had they just said we will do a simple check dive for everyone on the first dive, I understand and go with the flow, however I see the checking of skills to be insulting at best if that's their normal method of operation with no real basis for requesting it.

 

[chrisch]

.....
You don't have to believe idea of "check out dive". Whatever you do/don't is none my business. But I can sure you the practice is NOT rare.....

It appears to be a practice in holiday resorts for organised groups. I have never bothered with this as there is more than enough diving accessible to me without using a dive resort. I will take your word for it that it is not rare.

I still cannot understand why you would pay for a week's diving and lose the first day just so the operator can verify you can do a fin pivot. That is my point. Are there really that many bad divers that the resorts need to do this? If so that is a matter for concern in it's own right. Again as best I can see the issue revolves around guided dives. Never having been guided in my life I am not in a position to say whether or not this is something good, bad, or stupid. I think I will continue to avoid venues where I "need" a guide or a check out dive or any other such paraphernalia. I have enjoyed the last 25 years diving and look forward to the next 25 if I live that long and stay able.

---------- Post added January 10th, 2016 at 11:05 AM ----------

...however I see the checking of skills to be insulting at best if that's their normal method of operation with no real basis for requesting it.

Maybe ask for their GUE staff instructor cert to make sure they are sufficiently "qualified" to check your skills

 

[tridacna]

I'd just like to point out that the law now states that one can present a dive computer instead of a paper dive log. The idea seems to be that for liability purposes, the dive shops want to be able to say that if something happens, they were not negligent and rented equipment to somebody who didn't remember how to use it.

Where is this law of which you speak? The Knesset actually passed a bill requiring divers to have a log-book? Sounds like a bubbemeiser to me.

 

[BenjaminF]

The diving authority decreed it in their divine wisdom. Just like they have decreed so many other things.

At least with this one (the dive logs) I have tested it recently. My brother forgot his logbook on a recent trip to Eilat and they were willing to accept his Vyper as proof. Although I personally would have disallowed it on principle. After all, a Suunto dive computer... [emoji14]

Edited for spelling.

 

[chrisch]

Interesting info on Eilat....

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We do not work with the "Attraction Desks" at hotels. But some of these people will misrepresent themselves (also known as lying), hoping to confuse you enough that you'll pay for a voucher to go diving - at a different dive center where you'll be required to have a "refresher dive" which is a training dive in a sandy area using miserable equipment, and you'll even have to pay for a taxi there and back. Don't fall for it! "

http://www.shulamit-diving.com/info.htm#law
[/FONT]

 

[boulderjohn]

Here are my experiences with the topics in this thread:

1. I was asked for a logbook on my first liveaboard trip and never again. The purpose was to get an idea of our diving abilities and assign buddies. Half the people did not have one--no problem.

2. I have had to do checkout dives on several leveaboard trips and on a few other occasions. In the famous Tina Watson case, the liveaboard waived its mandatory checkout dive in her case, and they were fined heavily for that after she died. My most recent case was on a liveaboard in Australia. After that dive we were divided into groups--those who could dive on their own and those who had to be with a divemaster.

3. When people cite local laws like this, I am wary of what is actually going to happen. Before my last trip to Australia (two years ago), our group was warned that the law required us to have a current medical form signed by physician. We were told that this would be strictly enforced. (Do a search on the ScuibaBoard Australia forum for such pronouncements.) Before going on the liveaboard, we took a day trip on a boat that must have had a hundred divers. On the way out to the reef, we were each interviewed one by one about our diving histories. When I handed over my copy of my medical form and physician signature, the guy did not know what to do with it. All I had to do was sign a single sentence to say I was healthy. He had to ask one of the more senior crew members what to do with a medical form, because he had never seen one. The exact same thing happened two days later on the liveaboard. All we needed to do was sign a statement saying we were healthy. They were quite confused about the fact that we had a medical form.

 

[TMHeimer]

Question: On these "checkout" first dives are you charged for the dive? Ei. -- my only tropical trip to Panama involved 5 days of 2 tank dives each. I paid $100 for each of these days. If the first dive would have been a checkout dive (was not), would I be charged the $50 for it? If so, that would be my only beef with checkout dives. If not charged I guess I'd just be a little annoyed that I was doing that rather than just diving.

 

[boulderjohn]

Question: On these "checkout" first dives are you charged for the dive? Ei. -- my only tropical trip to Panama involved 5 days of 2 tank dives each. I paid $100 for each of these days. If the first dive would have been a checkout dive (was not), would I be charged the $50 for it? If so, that would be my only beef with checkout dives. If not charged I guess I'd just be a little annoyed that I was doing that rather than just diving.

Each time I had to do a checkout dive, it was related to a full package. It was either on a liveaboard or at the beginning of a dive week in a place like Bonaire (where I believe it is required by law). In each case I had paid a set fee for a week of diving, with no specific number of dives involved.

I have done many unofficial checkout dives for which I paid full freight. It was the first dive of a dive trip, and it was just another dive. Of course, the DM was watching everyone to see who could do what. That impacted what was done the rest of the week--which boats you go on for an operator with multiple boats, how much freedom you get on the rest of the dives, etc.