Long hose for a new diver

[TSandM]

Firstly I have to ask: "What is the advantage of having a long hose on your secondary, if you are giving the other diver your primary???"

There isn't any, and I don't think anybody has suggested putting a long hose on the secondary, if you donate the primary. What we have suggested is that anybody who is planning to donate the primary should have a longer hose than the 24" standard, because it's frankly miserable to share gas on that short a hose. And who would? The almost 50% of students who graduate from OW classes at our LDS and elect to purchase an integrated octo-inflator, but DON'T change the hose on the primary reg.

So, donating the primary ISN'T a tech/cave notion, but one which is as common as donating the octo, at least at my LDS (which is NOT a DIR-sympathetic one, but simply standard recreational). Then the question is what hose length you want to donate, and some of it comes down to routing. A 36 or 40 inch hose on the primary is a PITA. You can route it under your arm, but then it comes up to your mouth at an acute angle, and you have to add a swivel or angle adapter to be comfortable. If you let it float out around you, it's a huge loop of hose looking to get tangled in anything you come near.

The 5' hose wraps neatly around the body, leaving no large loops, and comes to the mouth at a comfortable angle. It permits donation of part of it (about the same as a 36 inch hose) or all of it, if everybody's relaxed and swimming is necessary (or to do a comfortable ascent). The problem with the 5' hose is that, for people with larger frames, it's too short. At that point, a 7' hose is a better choice -- STILL permitting partial deployment. But I will agree that a 7' hose can be difficult to route with a traditional BC. I never had much luck getting one to stay under a waist belt, and the setup is designed to route under a light canister, pocket or knife at the right hip.

 

[Peter Guy]

BCDC, a NAUI Course Director (that does mean he is a teacher of teachers, does it not?) wrote

Students are taught NOT to give away the primary 2nd stage to another diver in an emergency; the secondary is there for that purpose.

BUT, please sir, re-read the OP's post because he is NOT one of the students to whom you refer. He HAD DECIDED that he will donate his primary BECAUSE he has chosen the Air2 reg/inflator combo. (Or do you believe that this configuration is such that he donates his Air2?-- If so, PLEASE get some more training on the use of this "special and unique" equipment.) But I digress. Anyway, since he has already decided, and his choice of gear requires, he donate his primary reg, then yes, even you must agree he needs a "longer than standard" hose on his primary second stage. If I recall correctly, you even state a 40 inch hose is an appropriate length FOR THE SECOND STAGE THAT IS DONATED -- which his will be.

BTW, TSandM has pretty clearly, I believe, set forth reasons why for someone with an Air2/AirSource/reg/inflator combo, a 5 foot hose might be the better choice.

PLEASE, REMEMBER, the OP has already decided NOT to have the "traditional octo setup" and thus you need to rethink (thinking divers, remember?) your advice.

 

[Sas]

Ok I think people need to keep in mind that neither system is rocket science when it comes to learning how to use. You can come up with scenarios all you want, but unless people are practiced at using their system (whatever that may be) they are probably not going to do a very good job of donating. In OW, it really comes down to personal preference what setup to go with and I think it is silly to argue that the long hose is more task loading than other systems for new divers.

Too many people in the DIR crowd calling people 'strokes' has people jumpy No one likes being told they're "doing it wrong", or that they need to spend $80 on a hose that's 7' long.

Oh please! Who are these people? Please quote what they have said in this thead as I really fail to see the majority of people discussing the benefits of the long hose setup with the 'you're gonna die if you don't have this' attitude. I think you are seeing things that are not there.

Even if you're not coming off that way, people will sometimes interpret it as such.

Well those people need to build a bridge and get over it. If one cannot cope with someone else having a different opinion to them stated politely then that is THEIR problem, not the person disagreeing with them.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

You can always shorten a long hose, by not releasing it from under your can light or just holding a loop in your hand, but if you want the space, you can't lengthen a short one.

Out of curiousity, do you have any certification that involves long-hose training?

Jeff

 

[John_B]

For the situation that I described, this occurred while wreck diving in Bonaire at a depth of 190 feet on air (I'm commercially cleared on air to 70 meters).

The "Basic Scuba" answer is to not dive narc'ed. Just because you are "commercially cleared" doesn't make it smart.

 

[Splitlip]

I am contemplating going with long(er) hose system as I am switching to miflex hoses. I like the idea of having bit more distance in case of donation. For a single tank system, what lengths of hoses should I be looking at?

I don't need a 7ft hose for my diving (blue water). I also despise conventional octos.
But the 7ft hose on a small boat is something I don't care for. I have used 5 ft hoses, but don't like the way they route compared to a 7ft hose. The 7ft hose comes off the right hip and crosses the torso at an angle to the left shoulder and clears everything.
A 5ft OTH, comes under the right arm to the left shoulder, just about smack across the chest. It interferes with what I might have on my right shoulder d-ring as well as my necklaced alternate (should I go under or over?)

I route a 40" under my right arm now directly to my mouth with 90 degree fitting on the 2nd.

 

[Splitlip]

There isn't any, and I don't think anybody has suggested putting a long hose on the secondary, if you donate the primary. What we have suggested is that anybody who is planning to donate the primary should have a longer hose than the 24" standard, because it's frankly miserable to share gas on that short a hose. And who would? The almost 50% of students who graduate from OW classes at our LDS and elect to purchase an integrated octo-inflator, but DON'T change the hose on the primary reg.

So, donating the primary ISN'T a tech/cave notion, but one which is as common as donating the octo, at least at my LDS (which is NOT a DIR-sympathetic one, but simply standard recreational). Then the question is what hose length you want to donate, and some of it comes down to routing. A 36 or 40 inch hose on the primary is a PITA. You can route it under your arm, but then it comes up to your mouth at an acute angle, and you have to add a swivel or angle adapter to be comfortable. If you let it float out around you, it's a huge loop of hose looking to get tangled in anything you come near.

The 5' hose wraps neatly around the body, leaving no large loops, and comes to the mouth at a comfortable angle. It permits donation of part of it (about the same as a 36 inch hose) or all of it, if everybody's relaxed and swimming is necessary (or to do a comfortable ascent). The problem with the 5' hose is that, for people with larger frames, it's too short. At that point, a 7' hose is a better choice -- STILL permitting partial deployment. But I will agree that a 7' hose can be difficult to route with a traditional BC. I never had much luck getting one to stay under a waist belt, and the setup is designed to route under a light canister, pocket or knife at the right hip.

The 40" hose as I have above works nicely with an inflator octo.

 

[John_B]

I route a 40" under my right arm now directly to my mouth with 90 degree fitting on the 2nd.

I did that for quite a while, but practicing air shares showed me that 40" was just too close for anything except a vertical direct ascent. Obviously, YMMV.

 

[Splitlip]

I did that for quite a while, but practicing air shares showed me that 40" was just too close for anything except a vertical direct ascent. Obviously, YMMV.

Agreed. I am a blue water diver.

 

[Ben_ca]

Too many people in the DIR crowd calling people 'strokes' has people jumpy No one likes being told they're "doing it wrong", or that they need to spend $80 on a hose that's 7' long. Even if you're not coming off that way, people will sometimes interpret it as such.

I (now) dive a 7' hose after trying to do the rescue course and share air with 40"... A lot easier. Deploying is fairly quick (duck head while pulling hose out, making sure to offer it the right way 'down' so it doesn't flood, and the vents don't flood with every breath). There was a comment earlier about someone bolting to the surface with your reg? Back kick/drag/etc, they'll pivot in the water pretty fast or the reg'll come out of their mouth. You should strive to be in control of the reg if they're panicking in any event.

Whoa! Easy on the name calling.... I haven't seen anyone call anyone the S word. Now you are a sporting a 7 ft hose and using the s word this reflects badly on the DIR community because when they see you using the s word they think you speaking as a DIR guy!