Lost Diver at Mill Pond Rescued

[MXGratefulDiver]

Did these guys even have a plan? "Let's see where this goes" might be an acceptable plan for people who dive these caves week in and week out ... but for the occasional cave tourist it's generally not a good idea.

Curious how familiar these guys were with the layout of where they were heading before they attempted this dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[PfcAJ]

"lets see where this goes" is ok if you have the sense to know when to stop.

 

[LiteHedded]

let's see where this goes is how i plan all my dives.

 

[Jax]

"lets see where this goes" is ok if you have the sense to know when to stop.

let's see where this goes is how i plan all my dives.

These two absolutely go together, right?

It seems that the diver did not make a proper risk assessment as did the rest of the divers. I won't state as "judgment" because others' risk assessment lead to a turn-around judgment.

And lastly - he didn't run a reel from the end of the X line? and somehow found another line that went even smaller? I'm guessing, he convinced himself that he would hit the gold line main area if he just pushed on?

I'm sorry if it seems I am harping on this; I want to understand what was the mind-set, to be aware of it and its influences on decision.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

"lets see where this goes" is ok if you have the sense to know when to stop.

let's see where this goes is how i plan all my dives.

... which, as I said, can be an acceptable plan for folks who know what they're doing. I on the other hand, being a cave tourist, wouldn't consider it without knowing what to expect down there ... because inside a cave my limit for dealing with the unexpected would make such a plan unacceptably risky ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

If you are suppose to do a jump that would have a series of left hand turns, and you take a hard right, I bet you would question where you were. That evidently didnt happen here. It is not that complicated.

So another contributing factor was either know knowing the cave/dive, or not acknowledging the unfamiliarity?

. . . keep in mind that it is painfully evident sometimes common sense lacks in a lot of divers.

Common sense comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

 

[LiteHedded]

... which, as I said, can be an acceptable plan for folks who know what they're doing. I on the other hand, being a cave tourist, wouldn't consider it without knowing what to expect down there ... because inside a cave my limit for dealing with the unexpected would make such a plan unacceptably risky ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

right, but when you get in there you'll see if it's too much. cave divers should be capable of making a decision like this or they should not be cave diving

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

right, but when you get in there you'll see if it's too much. cave divers should be capable of making a decision like this or they should not be cave diving

Cave divers ... at least, relatively inexperienced or occasional cave divers ... should be capable of reading a map and making a plan that includes having some information about where they're going before going in there ... or they should not be cave diving. If they are relatively inexperienced cave divers, they should be encouraged to not just go in there to see if it's too much. That's exactly what this guy did, and once he realized it was too much he was already in over his head.

The problem with that approach is that it gives some folks the idea that anybody with a full cave certification is capable of doing exploration dives. I think that's what motivates the Ben McDaniels types out there, and creates incidents that require folks like Edd to have to rush into a cave in the hope that they can find the fool in time.

A card doesn't determine your limits ... experience and judgment do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[PfcAJ]

If you're simultaneously scrapin' titties and tanks, you should probably stop...

I guess I don't think that divers with poor judgement should be full cave/cave2 divers. Lots of failures, here. Training failure, team failure (but thankfully he had a team), planning failure, and mid-dive decision making failure. Lots of things to be addressed and lots of lessons to learn. I'm just glad no one got killed.

 

[boulderjohn]

The problem with that approach is that it gives some folks the idea that anybody with a full cave certification is capable of doing exploration dives. I think that's what motivates the Ben McDaniels types out there, and creates incidents that require folks like Edd to have to rush into a cave in the hope that they can find the fool in time.

A card doesn't determine your limits ... experience and judgment do ...

Maybe, but I'm not sure. Ben McDaniel had no cave training--he just thought he was an expert. As I understand it, two of the people Edd has saved this year were students let astray by their instructor. The other person Edd saved before this incident was an open water diver with no cave training. I have no idea what level of training was in play with this incident.

Becoming full cave was the process that gave me convincing evidence that I was not ready for exploration diving. If possible, I had more respect for the cave after training than before.