Low, mid, or high range regulator?

[2airishuman]

New to diving. Should I target an entry level regulator, mid, or high?

It isn't useful to divide the market that way. Regulator prices have little to do with how good the regulator is.

I can be a bit of a stickler for quality... I do plan to go deeper to 100-130 feet for dives. I do dive in cold water PNW. I do plan to dive in Alaska at some point in the not terribly distant future. I also plan to do plenty of warm water dives in tropical, which I think will be my favorite... but the cold water is whats local, so there will be a good mix.

What should I expect to pay for a full kit (1st + 2nd stage, second reg, octopus, SPG) at each level, NEW vs USED?

Going used, my experience has been that the best I can do on price is $30 a stage. I typically end up with SPGs at no additional cost by buying reg sets that have a useless 1st stage so I can get the 2nd stage I want. So I can get a used regulator set for $90 including freight (1st and two seconds). It takes some shopping to do this. And that's raw materials. By the time I buy 3 service kits ($60), hoses (a set of four--spg, bc, primary, secondary--is $100, although sometimes a usable hose or two will come with the regs), mouthpieces, fittings, and SPG o-rings, I end up at around $250 with me doing my own service. This for US Divers/Aqua-lung Conshelf XIV regulators.

New, I have spent about $500 for comparable regulators, HOG D1 with classic 2nd stages.

Is it really worth going used by the time you factor in the need for getting a service on the gear initially?

That depends on the sort of deal you get, how much fiddling you're willing to do, and what your priorities are. And on how much you have to pay for service.

I like metal second stages and they aren't readily available new. I think that the value of a "sealed" first stage (vs a diaphragm regulator where the first stage spring is not sealed) is overrated even for cold water dives. I like the long-term parts availability prospects for classic regulators made in huge volumes over the course of decades.

 

[filmguy123]

Ok, great info here.

So, ubiquity of shop servicing options is important to me for local + vacation dives (Portland, Seattle, Vancouver BC, Alaska - all around Caribbean + Hawaii). South Pacific and Asia as well. This will be where I do the majority of my vacation dives. Any problems with the DiveRites there? How about HOG?

In addition, YES to self servicing ability. That is a huge boon for me... but more in the longrun. I'm new to this and will be "task loading" a lot so to speak, and the top task load for me is fun while diving, not stressing out over learning how to properly self service my gear... But I will likely be far more interested in self-servicing in a few years (which yes, comes fast!) and easy to snag parts and ability to do this are great perks.

So, talk to me more about Zeagle. A very large international servicing network AND ability to self-service sound appealing. I recognize I may be asking the impossible there and this may be default need to be a "pick one or the other, or blow your budget to hell and back"

Now, tbone - I like your suggestion here and I did actually read some old threads of yours and got to see your passion for this kit. Good stuff. I *DO* like the idea of "future proofing" in the sense that this would set me up for doubles, correct? I see that i the future. And for all I know, the not too distant future possibly. I also do like the idea of having a kit that is going to be ready for GUE training in the future and I believe they require an identical safe second + redundancy, is that correct?

My only concern with all of this is going to be, that realistically, 40-50 a year is what I may end up with initially and I may end up being more of a vacation diver with bi-monthly weekend trips in the cold PNW. I don't mind a slight overspend in my needs for that, but I do mind a "mis-spend" in my needs for that where I would have been better suited to a ubiquitous and easy service option such as an Apeks?

Another question - environmentally sealed - any downsides here in terms of difficulty in servicing? How far will this get me in terms of cold water? The regs we are talking about in this thread, DiveRite XT + the HOG rigs, or an equivalent Zeagle or Apeks... will they work in Antartica 33 F? Or how about Alaska's 36 F in the coldest areas? Or when we say cold water are we mostly discussing 38-40+ for the coldest the PNW has to offer? I'm getting at... where is the tipping point here before you need something that can work in the extremes?

Last question: DIN vs YOKE. I understand most of the advanced and tec folks here are going to swear by DIN. That's cool, I believe it. I also know YOKE is ubiquitous in most places I'll be, and here in the PNW (correct?). I am aware they make the DIN to YOKE adaptors so my big question is this:

What are the DOWNSIDES of using a YOKE adaptor vs a pure YOKE setup? Any?

 

[filmguy123]

Is this pretty much unanimous here that "used" is the best way to go for a regulator if I am not nickle & diming?

I can be a selective guy.... so If the difference is only $500 used VS $700 new for the exact same level of gear, than the $200 savings simply isn't enough for me to outweigh the benefits.

BUT... If we're talking $500 used for a "AAA" kit and $700 new for a more "AA" kit, than saving $200 + getting something better is certainly worth it for me... even if it's a bit more hassle.

 

[runsongas]

if you don't care about spending 500 vs 700, then go with a new set of regs. you get a warranty that way.

for antarctica, you may want to look for metal 2nd stages (glacia/a700 or the vintage 109/156/conshelf xiv). poseidon is another option that is somewhat popular for ice diving but has its own servicing challenges.

if you might want to take gue fundies, get a din reg now. the din to yoke adapter sticks out a bit more compared to a regular yoke and some guys complain about hitting their head on the reg with it, but getting a yoke is usually cheaper than getting the din adapter later on. lots of extra yoke fittings floating around from people who did the yoke to din conversion.

 

[tbone1004]

hog won't be serviceable when travelling abroad, Dive Rite shouldn't have issues, though I carry an extra first stage or learn to DIY the service because I don't trust people to repair my gear. Carry an IP gauge and do thorough pre-trip checks and your regs will tell you if they need service. DIY service has nothing to do with your dive experience since it should only be something that happens every 2-3 years. If you buy a new reg set, you shouldn't have to do anything to do for at least 2 years outside of the normal cleaning and proper storing. Buy an IP gauge for $30 and that is about as good of a diagnostic as you can get. If it's stable, it doesn't need repair, when it starts creeping it's time.

I prefer the hose routing associated with swivel turrets and Zeagle doesn't offer that. I believe Dive Rite is similar in size to Zeagle in terms of dealer networks and while Zeagle isn't impossible to get parts for like Apeks/Hollis/Scubapro, it isn't quite as easy as Dive Rite.

My passion for Dive Rite is not actually passion, I don't own the regs, I dive Poseidon Jetstreams *not GUE compatible btw*, but it is because Cave Adventurers has a tremendous deal on the regulators and as of right now they are the most logical choice for most divers.

GUE for any technical training will require multiple first stages for redundancy but do not require identical second stages. They do not allow regulators like the SS1 or Air2, and usually frown upon most cheap octo's *like the slimline type because they breathe horribly no matter how good you are at tuning them*, the Dive Rite XT kit is most certainly suitable for any type of technical training, whether that is singles with an H-valve, Doubles, or even single tank with a pony bottle *not that I advocate for that, but all of the requisite parts are there*

Apeks won't offer you any advantages, and again, if you do your proper pre-trip checks, you shouldn't have any service needs while travelling. For recreational diving, set up your doubles kit as a singles regulator set, and throw the extra first stage in your carryon with an adjustable wrench. If your first stage fails, while you're on the boat, in under 5 minutes you can have it removed from the tank, all of the hoses swapped over, and back on the rig, and have it serviced when you get home.

Dry sealing a diaphragm reg is nothing, and will take you to as cold as water can get because the important parts are dry. No water, no ice. The second stages have metal barrels and heat sinks and while you have to be careful, they are going to be as good in cold water as most anything. While I do prefer my Poseidons I would have no problem taking Hog or Dive Rite regs into the ice. If you are working hard in cold water, I would go to a Poseidon regulator, but you aren't a combat swimmer or commercial diver, so you shouldn't be working that hard.

DIN vs. Yoke, if you plan to own your own tanks, and dive locally, DIN all the way. It is better. If you don't plan on owning your own regs, you can have the Dive Rite's ordered in Yoke and you can always spend about $40 and switch to DIN later down the road if you so choose. The disadvantage to the spin on adapter is they push the regulator about an inch closer to your head. The advantage of the turret style first stage is you can rotate it horizontally with the 5th port and it is less severe. It is a minor nuisance if you don't have your tank at the right height, but if you are doing most of your diving locally with DIN tanks, it doesn't make sense to use yoke. Yoke is also not allowed in any technical training to my knowledge, you would have to verify with your fundies instructor for GUE if they allow it. Yoke isn't expressly forbidden, but if it's available you should use DIN

 

[CptTightPants21]

Is this pretty much unanimous here that "used" is the best way to go for a regulator if I am not nickle & diming?

I can be a selective guy.... so If the difference is only $500 used VS $700 new for the exact same level of gear, than the $200 savings simply isn't enough for me.

BUT... If we're talking $500 used for a "AAA" kit and $700 new for a more "AA" kit, than saving $200 + getting something better is certainly worth it for me... even if it's a bit more hassle.

Apeks have been used everywhere for everything. They have even been used at 1000ft. But I own 6 of them so I am biased.

If you are only looking into a single tank set up then any apeks first stage will work (DST, FSR, FST). You you want a reg that can be eventually converted into half a doubles tank set up than go with the DST. The FSR and FST are 'ok' for doubles hose routing and I have used them, but the DST is the preferred choice and can be used for backmounted doubles and sidemount. Any apeks second stage numbered 50 or above is identical and the differences are only cosmetic. Any apeks second stage below 50 is the same as above, but without the venturi lever.

If you look at the classifieds section there are several full single tank apeks set ups for ~$400. A brand new apeks single tank set up with a 2x XTX50s/DST with SPG should cost somewhere around $750-800 new. Call/email DiveRightInScuba to inquire.

 

[filmguy123]

I won't be owning my own tanks - probably looking at 50-60 dives/year, split between PNW cold and travel destinations (mostly Hawaii + Caribbean). The occassional big trip will take me to the South Pacific, or Africa, or something of the sort.

As such, it seems Yoke is what I'd be using most of the time...?
To clarify, would GUE Fundies likely have any problem with a Yoke reg with a DIN adaptor on it?

(and is it really THAT big of a deal if I snag a Yoke with DIN adaptor vs a DIN with Yoke adaptor)?

Recommendation on a good IP gauge I can order today? Plus a video tutorial on how to use?

The DR XT setup has 2x identical 2nd stages, 2x identical 1st stages, and 2x air pressure gauges eh? Ok Tbone, how about this: what are the DOWNSIDES to this kit or selection? Also Tbone - I hear they don't sell the DR service manual anymore. How can I get my hands on one? I'm sure you know a source (PDF or ebay or?)

 

[tbone1004]

yoke reg with din adapters don't exist for diving use. They use them as fill blocks, but are not used for diving.

Deluxe IP Gauge (PSI and BAR) | Dive Gear Express®
plug into inflator hose, look at the pressure. Breathe a few times and watch it fall 10-20 PSI and come back up. It should go down and come back up fairly quickly. Leave it plugged in for 5-10 minutes, it shouldn't rise any more than about 5 psi.

Dive Rite set has no downsides. If you call you can ask them to include a normal length HP hose along with a short one *good for pony/deco bottle later with the normal one for backmount*, and you can ask for one to be yoke, one to be DIN, or just ask if you can buy the yoke kit with it and have 2 din regs for local diving, and with a couple of hand tools and about 2 minutes, swap it over to yoke if you are travelling. The second one is what many of us do.

You can't get the manual for it unless associated with Dive Rite, but that is officially true with every regulator mfg. HOG is the only company where you can take a course to service without being associated with a dealer, but you can't get the manual without the course. Most of us use the Apeks manual for the knockoff's. They're all basically the same on the inside.

 

[runsongas]

if you do more than 20 local dives a year, it may be worth it to buy your own tanks. you'll spend 10 to 20 dollars every time you dive for the tank rental depending if you rent one or 2 tanks. visual and hydro cost per year is 30 bucks or less. if you get used steel tanks, you really don't lose money because the tank has already depreciated and the remaining value is pretty stable.

the convenience is also a big deal. you don't have to arrive super early to the shop to try and get a hp100 or else get stuck with an al80.

 

[tbone1004]

Steel 130 SCUBA Tanks

offer $400 for them since they'll need hydro next year. Worth purchasing if anything for the convenience