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The sad truth of the matter is there is a large number of PSD teams with members that have less skill and experience than an average recreational diver and so I think basic problems such as these are very real. We certainly could "what if" forever but aren't we in the "what if" business? A third guy cuts your "what if" list by at least halfGary D.:
I disagree here not because it isn't possible like you say but because you're starting the dive already behind the eightball. I believe in maskless drills just in case but I'd think it would be pretty easy to knock a mask without a strap off in a blackwater dive. Things rarely run smoothly and tend to snowball. I'd say 9 times out of 10 I wouldn't risk it - every situation is different though. I carry a spare mask anywaysGary D.:
because, well.... what if? I know I'm taking this out of context on you but this is the whole point of a 3rd diver. I agree that there has to be flexibility here, its impossible to have 2 divers arrive and be ready at the same time let alone 3 but getting 3 to the scene and able to dive asap is what I'd advocate. We used to run with just one stand by diver but are now using a 3rd as well. For rescues are we going to wait until the 3rd guy shows up? probably not but we'd probably wait until we knew a 3rd guy was on route in most casesGary D.:
No you're right, theres no science that I know of that states depth limits survivability, I didn't mean to imply that. Our training "recommends" a depth limit to all diving (60ft) but our equipment is the real limiting factor. The CSA standards (that we have to follow up here) have a depth limit where we'd have to switch to surface supplied - I can't remember the exact depth but our team will never approach that anyway. Our immeadiate area (where response time may allow a rescue) there is no water deeper than 30ft so our SOG's reflect all of this.Gary D.:
Gary D.bridgediver:Gary, please don't misunderstand my comments as contrary to what your team does. From what I've heard from you on the board your team seems to be able to handle themselves alot better than most teams. For newer or less experienced teams I think my thoughts are valid. They are.
The sad truth of the matter is there is a large number of PSD teams with members that have less skill and experience than an average recreational diver and so I think basic problems such as these are very real. We certainly could "what if" forever but aren't we in the "what if" business? A third guy cuts your "what if" list by at least half
It is sad that they don't get or aren't even offered proper training. In a lot of cases a new team member isn't even put through basic testing prior to being accepted as a member.
I disagree here not because it isn't possible like you say but because you're starting the dive already behind the eightball. I believe in maskless drills just in case but I'd think it would be pretty easy to knock a mask without a strap off in a blackwater dive. Things rarely run smoothly and tend to snowball. I'd say 9 times out of 10 I wouldn't risk it - every situation is different though. I carry a spare mask anyways
I know I'm taking this out of context on you but this is the whole point of a 3rd diver. I agree that there has to be flexibility here, its impossible to have 2 divers arrive and be ready at the same time let alone 3 but getting 3 to the scene and able to dive asap is what I'd advocate. We used to run with just one stand by diver but are now using a 3rd as well. For rescues are we going to wait until the 3rd guy shows up? probably not but we'd probably wait until we knew a 3rd guy was on route in most casesHere is where a team needs to know their gear like the back of their hand. We strive for a 3 minute suit up. It would be nice if all teams could do that correctly 100% of the time. But being able to getg dressed that fast makes things go a lot smoother.
No you're right, theres no science that I know of that states depth limits survivability, I didn't mean to imply that. Our training "recommends" a depth limit to all diving (60ft) but our equipment is the real limiting factor. The CSA standards (that we have to follow up here) have a depth limit where we'd have to switch to surface supplied - I can't remember the exact depth but our team will never approach that anyway. Our immeadiate area (where response time may allow a rescue) there is no water deeper than 30ft so our SOG's reflect all of this.
Just a random thought but would you agree that usually with a depth increase the time to find the victim will increase as the search area will be that much larger for the body to drift? Yes, lots of factors to consider as well as the type of accident. It just seems that most of ours are vehicle related and most of the time they stay in it making the find quick and easier.
Curious as to what sorts of tanks and gases you guys are using for dives deeper than 70ft? Is there a difference for equipment configuration rescue vs recovery?No! Strictly air. Not being able to plan a dive eliminated Nitrox for rescue. So far the department is still a NO for it across the board. I'll have that changed by the end of the year for recoveries. Other than that everything stays the same. Many many times we get called off a recovery for a rescue so we stay with the same gear.
I think every team will have variations in how they operate according to their environment. That's the way it should be.My opinions are based on what we do and why we do it. So are mine. There is no one right way that will work for all teams.It works for us because alot of our divers are green but even the experienced guys can't argue that we're alot safer than we used to be. I don't think you can put a cap on being safe enoughBINGO.
thanks for your thoughts Gary
