Mandatory TDA membership

[josh]

For Phuket its simple.

1. Immigration officer at pier at 7.30 am with Police & big van
2. All customers board boats
3. All instructors according to manifests present WP
4. No WP - trip to jail, pay 100,000 baht, do not pass go - leave Thailand
5. Have WP - join boat and do a professional job (hopefully)

I think you forgot step 6: Pretty much close the dive industry in Thailand.

The problem (as ever) in Thailand is not that people WANT to work illegally, its the convoluted process and proceedures to obtain a work permit. Whats the ratio at the moment? 4 Thai employees per WP? Plus a certain size of invested capital? In a company you can't actually OWN of course. Plus the problems of minimum income/tax for renewal.

And the brutal, simple truth is that Thai instructors wil not fill any gap created by cracking down on illegal foreigners, because, simply put, most Thai instructors (most, not all) can't find their a@@ with both hands.

 

[smartecosse]

is not that people WANT to work illegally

yes it is - and they are probably the same ones that in their home country whinge about illegal immigrants & workers and its makes it tougher for those of us that are here working legally. Not only does it depress the salaries as they dont need to account for tax etc but it also makes the authorities very sceptical of the dive industry (and the teaching one as well)

its the convoluted process and proceedures to obtain a work permit

its not that hard and only take 4 weeks or so

Whats the ratio at the moment? 4 Thai employees per WP?

No, thats only of you are after an extension for your visa. On a normal non immigrant b you need ZERO Thai employees

Plus a certain size of invested capital?

You can pay a bond, no need to have actual paid up capital. Including bond a Thai company (with 2 million baht bond good fopr one WP) is about 35k baht in total

In a company you can't actually OWN of course.

So what, don't put any assets in the name of the company.

Plus the problems of minimum income/tax for renewal.

Only for extension of visa - otherwise you just pay the going rate of tax for your nationality. If you are going to work in a country you should pay tax - its only fair

Are you happy with illegal workers in your own country not paying tax and working??

And the brutal, simple truth is that Thai instructors wil not fill any gap created by cracking down on illegal foreigners, because, simply put, most Thai instructors (most, not all) can't find their a@@ with both hands.

I have seen many many examples of poor farang instructors, especially among the zero to hero brigade.

Thai insts like working as guides rather than as insts as they earn more and have less responsibility that way - all those 1200 baht for a CD add up to a lot of $$$$ over the course of a season.



I suggest that those of you that need further info on the ins & outs of setting up a Thai company have a look at Home - Thaivisa.com as there are quite a lot of excellent posts on there from people that do actually know what they are posting about.

 

[limbo]

Smartecosse,

Your info is outdated, as from earlier this year, if you want to start a company as a free lance dive instructor, you need to become a TAT member and pay the 100.000,-THB bond into a trust account, have a real office and at least one (Thai) staff manning that office.

Everybody's who's in the system, is excempt from this (for the time being?).

I also disagree with your statement that most people don't want to go legal, I know plenty that do, but under these circumstances, there will be a stop of new 'legal' dive instructors in Thailand.
Any other job descrition on your work permit and you have your work permit within a few weeks, only for dive instructors these new rules exist, as of early this year!

All the stuff that you mention is all possible, as long as you don't want a WP as a Dive instructor.

This is information comes from a reputable (as far as that is possible for a) lawyer in Phuket and was researched last week by a former IDC candidate of mine.

I just found out a few days ago and have this already confirmed by other people, incl. the regional manager.

 

[smartecosse]

limbo

as far as i am aware the law regarding the TAT was implemented in June.

However, many freelance inst have had no problem getting by with the 10k bond as they are providing a service to dive schools rather than running their own school - this is thailand as as you should know the "laws" are interpreted differently by different officers at different departments.

Real office? Your joking right? This is nothing new at all - its why so many companies are registered to their lawyers / accountants office. Yes you have to have a "real" office but it doesnt have to be for your sole use and the only stipulation is that it has your company name on the front and even this is hardly enforced.

One member of thai staff for the office? OK so that may cost you 600 baht a month extra to pay the tax / social for someone that you know / your accountant knows etc etc

The point that I was trying to make is that it is not hard to form a legal company and work here legally.

The ones that say "oh, well i was going to do it but it was too difficult" should head home and be looked after by their mothers as they are not ready for the real world yet. Pretty sure that the above sentence means "well i can't afford the thousand US$ it will take to set it all up so ****** the Thai govt (& those that work here legally) I will just do it illegally"

There is no justification for working illegally. If the laws are too costly / too difficult for someone to comply with they should go elsewhere.

The "dive bum's" that work for a pittance as they have no bills to pay may seem attractive to shop owners but you get what you pay for and the service given to customers in general is related to this.

Before i get flamed i am sure that there are plenty of illegal workers in the dive industry that do excellent jobs - unfortunately that is not the case with a great % of them.

I'll log off now and check back for all the flamers that tell me otherwise but if the discussion was about illegal workers in your home country not pay tax etc etc and their excuse was that they didnt like the paperwork and it wasnt something that was super easy to organise would you be happy with that as an excuse? Because thats all it is, an excuse. The accountant / lawyer does all the work - all you do in hand over the money and a copy of your credentials.

 

[katdiver]

I think there's a bit of truth from both of you. I've not long gone through the process of setting up my own company. Sure are many hoops to jump through, but as was said, get the right lawyer or broker to sort the paperwork goes along way.

Freelance instructors, well of my limited experience of some of them, it's a case of sit back and wait for the phone to ring, who needs to set up a company for that?

 

[limbo]

Hi Smartecosse,

No need to flame, I fully agree with your sentiments about working illegaly in the Thai dive industry, that should/could be more regulated but not to a degree that it almost makes it 'impossible' to go the legal route.

Interesting points you bring up regarding how to play the system. Worthwhile looking into.

 

[davekohchang]

Dear all
I am a new one here on this board ,reason is the TDA Cmassia is starting over here as well on Koh Chang.
According to there local representive here all shops in Phuket are now TDA members and have Cmas 2 star instructor working for them.
Can anybody out there give me an update.
Thanks a lot
Dave

 

[stiggy]

Is every dive shop on Phuket TDA and do they have 2 cmas staff ?

Simply put Dave kochang.. NO

TDA wish they where but reality is no ! great start for there new representative on chang bending the truth to start with.

 

[limbo]

Dave KohChang,

If you're PADI affiliated, get in touch with Hans.

Stiggy mentioend it already, no, not all dive shops in Phukt are TDA affiliated and have a CMAS 2* instructor on staff, they wish! There are actually dive centres who asked TDA/CMAS to remove them from their list, since they never were a member to start with.

This gives you indeed a good idea about who you're dealing with, people who're not afraid to 'bend' the truth a little bit. Very re-assuring.

 

[stevenl]

As a Phuket DC, I can confirm the above.

There are only a handfull DC's here that have a CMAS 2 star instructor on staff, mainly because they are also a CMAS DC (and of course they hardly ever teach CMAS courses).
A vast majority is also not TDA member. They may be on the list, but have not paid any membership fees. This list TDA only uses to prove to other DC's and the Thai government how important they are, which is why I asked to be removed from the list.