Master Diver - worth getting?

[TMHeimer]

Agree with last 2 posts. I'm not gunna concern myself with a MSD with 50 dives doing something reckless because they actually think they are a Master (I was there at 50 dives and know I was anything BUT a Master--not that I am now....). You know, that Darwin thing.

 

[boulderjohn]

Problem is that some people have no humility or humbleness and believe the words actually apply to them.

IMO, the reason people overvalue their skills in scuba is not so much based on the words on their certification card--although it happens, and I know of examples of my own. It is based on a comparison of themselves to the other people they see when they dive. It can create what I have elsewhere called the "I'm the best I've ever seen" syndrome. If 100% of your diving is recreational diving done in tropical resorts, and if you have your buoyancy and breathing rate pretty well under control in those conditions, there is a really good chance you will never have seen anyone appreciably better than you and can logically conclude that you are among the best there is. Even if someone is better, you might wonder, how much better can they be? How would anyone watching the two of you tell the difference?

I thought I was pretty darn good when I had a few hundred dives and was an OW instructor. Just about all of those dives had been done on tropical vacations or while leading students locally. Then I started technical instruction and was completely humiliated at the realization of how much I needed to learn. I now have many times the number of dives I had back then, and my skills are far beyond what they were, but I have seen divers who are so far beyond me now that I know I will never reach that level. The top of the heap is still a long, long way away for the likes of me.

 

[stuartv]

IMO, the reason people overvalue their skills in scuba is not so much based on the words on their certification card--although it happens, and I know of examples of my own. It is based on a comparison of themselves to the other people they see when they dive.

I think that is entirely understandable and forgivable. What I think is less, umm, forgivable, is that people complete courses of instruction with no idea of a realistic assessment of their dive skills. Especially if the person has had enough training to earn the MSD card.

At the ripe old scuba age of around 25 dives, I thought I had pretty good buoyancy control. I'd been diving in Mexico and Hawaii by then. Even my tech diver buddy that I met in Mexico right after OW said I had good buoyancy. I thought I was just a total natural...

Then I took Wreck and Deep as a combined course with an instructor that is a tech instructor. That course included learning to use a reel, shoot an SMB from depth, and lay a guideline. That was when I really learned how far from "good" my buoyancy control really was. I did okay in the course. Well enough for the instructor to take me on as a tech student a month later, by which time I was up to 40-something dives. But, when I finished Deep and Wreck, I had a much better understanding that my buoyancy control still had TONS of room for improvement. And still does today.

I think every instructor owes it to their students to challenge them - to have their students finish their course feeling good about themselves and what they've done (if they deserve it), but also having had a little taste of humble pie, so they at least have an idea of how much room there still is for improvement. From what little I have seen, I think a LOT of people don't get that. Especially from their OW class. Anybody who gets an MSD card and thinks they are a diving god probably also did not get that.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think every instructor owes it to their students to challenge them - to have their students finish their course feeling good about themselves and what they've done (if they deserve it), but also having had a little taste of humble pie, so they at least have an idea of how much room there still is for improvement. From what little I have seen, I think a LOT of people don't get that. Especially from their OW class. Anybody who gets an MSD card and thinks they are a diving god probably also did not get that.

As I said in my post, my own humbling came well after I had been an instructor for quite some time.

When I took my first technical diving training and realized how much I had to learn, I was in a shop that had about a dozen instructors, including a course director and a master instructor. Those two had logged thousands of dives. I feel confident in saying that not one of them had ever seen a technical diver of any sort. None had been in a cave. I later switched shops for a variety of reasons, and I don't think any of the instructors in the second shop had anything close to the experience of the ones in the first shop.

I attribute one of the more talked about dive fatalities in ScubaBoard history to this "syndrome." In that incident, a tropical dive operation's owner, her best DM, and a friend decided to do a bounce dive to 300 feet on single tanks. As far as I know, the shop owner and the DM had thousands of dives, all in that sort of setting. I am quite sure they had good reason to think they were at the top of the scuba pyramid. They knew other divers go to 300 feet--why couldn't they? The owner died, and the DM will never walk again.

In summary, there is a good chance a scuba instructor or DM with thousands of dives only knows that kind of diving and cannot know how much there is to know beyond that. You cannot teach something if you don't know it yourself.

 

[EricTheDood]

I now have many times the number of dives I had back then, and my skills are far beyond what they were, but I have seen divers who are so far beyond me now that I know I will never reach that level. The top of the heap is still a long, long way away for the likes of me.

Can you elaborate on the types of skills that put these folks at the top?

 

[TMHeimer]

I see what you guys are saying. Though my dive situations/locations have been quite varied, both of you have gone way beyond me -- into tech. among other things. It gets back to that of definition of "Master". I'm definitely a Master at all kinds of shore diving to a depth of 30' since that's 95% of my diving the last few years. I was a pretty good DM for 4 years with assisting (some said I was excellent). As far as the other stuff, I'm WAY below the ladder's bottom rung.

 

[Remy B.]

Can you elaborate on the types of skills that put these folks at the top?

Go the TEC way and you will see how little you know about diving.


Regarding Master Diver, there is a saying.

Master of all trades but master of none

 

[flyboy08]

I think I meet the requirements, but my training was a poo poo platter of agencies....see below

Who should I contact? SSI, PADI or NASDA, EIEIO? I think I'm happy with what I already have.

 

[Storker]

Go the TEC way and you will see how little you know about diving.

So, going "the TEC way" is a little like Fight Club, then? Don't talk about it?

 

[boulderjohn]

Can you elaborate on the types of skills that put these folks at the top?

Let's start with buoyancy and trim. When I got to 30 dives, I thought, "Wow! I'm getting really good at buoyancy control!" When I had abut 80 dives, I thought "I was wrong about being good at buoyancy when I had 30 dives--now I have it mastered!" I had epiphanies of that sort every 80-100 dives. When I started tech, I realized I was still a beginner. I got better and better and better, but with well over a thousand dives now, I know people who still have me blown away. Want to test yourself to see where you are? The next time you do a 3-minute safety stop, do it in horizontal trim (perfectly flat), without going a foot shallower or deeper and without moving a muscle. Now imagine doing that for, say, a 30 minute decompression stop.

Now imagine doing that while accomplishing tasks like writing in a notebook, switching tanks, etc. By switching tanks, I may be talking about taking one that is trailing behind you on a leash. You need to take a tank off the leash, put an old, spent tank on the leash, clip the tank you took off the leash onto your D-rings, switch the regulator you are breathing from now to a different one on the new tank, and stow the regulator and its hose under the rubber bands on the old tank, all while holding that decompression stop.

Next, let's move on to propulsion. Imagine going through a wreck or cave with soft, fine silt on the floor and a hard ceiling with only a few inches higher off the floor than the total thickness of your body and gear. Imagine now that you glide over that floor and under that ceiling without touching the ceiling and its delicate formation or stirring up the silt on the floor. Imagine maneuvering your body through a complex, winding passageway, either in a wreck or a cave, using only the movements of your fins to turn your body without touching anything.

How about dive planning? Some people are doing dives that are 9-10 hours long in deep caves. Think about what it takes to plan and execute a dive like that with the confidence that you will have all the gas you need to come out alive.

Those are just some of the skills the really advanced divers have. I'm not bad--I do teach tech, after all--but I am still short of the ideal in all those areas.

Now, out one of those really elite divers on a shallow, recreational dive in a resort setting, and you will have trouble spotting the difference if you don't know what you are looking for. Those skills only truly come to the fore when they are truly needed, and most divers will never need them.