Max depth for CESA?

[boulderjohn]

As several people have said, there really is no practical limit to the CESA in terms of depth.

On the other hand, a joint PADI/DAN study a few years ago found that the #1 skill related cause of death in scuba was embolism following a rapid ascent, usually after an OOA episode. It is not the CESA that was at fault, though--it is the failure to do a CESA properly that caused it. If you hold your breath when you do it rather than exhale the whole way as you are taught, you are at great risk.

You mentioned that they did their ascent with their regulators out of their mouths. That will work just fine as long as they continue to exhale all the way, but it is not a good idea. If the ascending diver blows out all the air too quickly and succumbs to an overwhelming urge to inhale, the diver with the regulator out of the mouth will inhale water and drown. The diver with the regulator in the mouth will probably inhale air, because the OOA regulator was not actually OOA--it just could not deliver its little remaining air at the greater depth where the incident began. In the worst case scenario, the inhaling diver will get nothing, which sure beats breathing water.

 

[Rred]

"punch the buddy in the..."
Yes, actually. They may well have changed it by now, but the American Red Cross water safety aid classes used to train you to first, attempt to render aid from out of the water. That's what those big "hooks" at swimming pools are for. You offer the life ring, or you extend the hook, but you don't get near the victim because they may try to climb on top of you in their panic, drowning you.
But if you have to go after them? Yes, you should be prepared to forcefully disengage them, as quickly and positively as you can. Punching, not so good in a thick medium like water. But I suspect that if you simply dumped your BC air and went negative, pulling your gear with you, the other guy would let go on his own.

 

[Bigeclipse]

As several people have said, there really is no practical limit to the CESA in terms of depth.

On the other hand, a joint PADI/DAN study a few years ago found that the #1 skill related cause of death in scuba was embolism following a rapid ascent, usually after an OOA episode. It is not the CESA that was at fault, though--it is the failure to do a CESA properly that caused it. If you hold your breath when you do it rather than exhale the whole way as you are taught, you are at great risk.

You mentioned that they did their ascent with their regulators out of their mouths. That will work just fine as long as they continue to exhale all the way, but it is not a good idea. If the ascending diver blows out all the air too quickly and succumbs to an overwhelming urge to inhale, the diver with the regulator out of the mouth will inhale water and drown. The diver with the regulator in the mouth will probably inhale air, because the OOA regulator was not actually OOA--it just could not deliver its little remaining air at the greater depth where the incident began. In the worst case scenario, the inhaling diver will get nothing, which sure beats breathing water.

I should have been more clear...they did not intentionally do a CESA with regs out of their mouths. The first panicked dragging my father...the reg popped out of his mouth due to dragging my dad. My dad went up without reg just because of all the panick and he said before he knew it he was swimming towards the surface. It wasn't until after he reached the surface that he realized he did the whole ascent without reg in his mouth.

 

[boulderjohn]

I should have been more clear...they did not intentionally do a CESA with regs out of their mouths. The first panicked dragging my father...the reg popped out of his mouth due to dragging my dad. My dad went up without reg just because of all the panick and he said before he knew it he was swimming towards the surface. It wasn't until after he reached the surface that he realized he did the whole ascent without reg in his mouth.

I understood--I just wanted to explain the reason people advocate retaining the regulator because it is frequently misunderstood.

 

[Diver0001]

Brett Gilliam did one from over 325 feet while watching his dive buddy get torn apart by sharks.

Yeah.... well.... I'm only speaking for myself but I LONG ago stopped believing a single thing Brett Gilliam said or wrote.... In terms of personality he comes across to me like the Donald Trump of scuba diving.

When I first read this story I believed it to be at best a severe embellishment of a close call and at worst a complete fabrication intended to sell magazines and make money. The last time I checked the only references I could find to this incident on the internet all linked back to Gilliam's original article.

I have to say that I personally think that it never happened. Until I see independent verification of the incident by an unrelated 3rd party I'm going to have to go with what Brett Gilliam has proven himself to be over the years and call it a work of fiction.

R..

 

[WantSomeScuba?]

Yeah.... well.... I'm only speaking for myself but I LONG ago stopped believing a single thing Brett Gilliam said or wrote.... In terms of personality he comes across to me like the Donald Trump of scuba diving.

When I first read this story I believed it to be at best a severe embellishment of a close call and at worst a complete fabrication intended to sell magazines and make money. The last time I checked the only references I could find to this incident on the internet all linked back to Gilliam's original article.

I have to say that I personally think that it never happened. Until I see independent verification of the incident by an unrelated 3rd party I'm going to have to go with what Brett Gilliam has proven himself to be over the years and call it a work of fiction.

R..

Hahaha, sorry, I thought we were one-upping each other, although I didn't know he was that bad when it came to telling tales outside of school. I always put him in my head with Jill Heinerth--they make money selling books/articles/etc and so they take creative liberties.

 

[Diver0001]

I think Jill and Brett may have been hatched from the same egg, but that's another story. At least Brett knows his stuff.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

Hahaha, sorry, I thought we were one-upping each other, although I didn't know he was that bad when it came to telling tales outside of school. I always put him in my head with Jill Heinerth--they make money selling books/articles/etc and so they take creative liberties.

Oh and If I'm not mistaken in at least one version of that story he talked about the incident taking place along the wall of Elphinstone reef in Egypt. I've been diving there many times and as far as I can tell the reef bottoms out at about 60 meters and doesn't get much deeper on the sea floor than about 70m (230ft).

Just saying.

R..

 

[WantSomeScuba?]

Just saying.

R..

No, I definitely believe you. I would assume at a certain point in a career, some folks end up buying into their own hype.

 

[bamafan]

A buddy of mine went through SEAL training back in the late 70's. He said they had to do it from 150'. He said he was worried about it but it turned out to be really easy. Said about the time he felt like he needed to breathe his lungs were full again.