Minimalist versus "Train as you Fight" . . . Which way do you go?

[Kern]

I just love it, a pogo calling BS on a front line type.

 

[Thalassamania]

Hm ... "POGO," not heard that for quite a while, you must be Australian.

 

[fjpatrum]

Well, being a newb I'm still dialing in my kit, but so far I practice like I play. I just bought a backup light but I will probably only carry that for night and low viz dives. Other than that, everything stays the same for every configuration except weight.

EDIT: Just realized I recently added an SMB. That won't go on every dive either. I have usually tended toward the "minimalist" mindset but I don't really see a significant distinction between the two, either. I wear what I need for a particular activity, and don't carry a lot of extra crap. When I need more crap, I take it with me. Simple as that. I do always arrange my gear in the same locations when I carry it, though. At this point, I'm still getting the feel for where those locations are for diving but I'm liking my latest quite a lot.

 

[Max Speed]

I have occasionally reached for a stick while driving an automatic. I have stepped on the brake in an automatic when my left foot went for a non-existant clutch. (That bounces your head off the steering wheel!) I have shifted the wrong way when transitioning from a race bike to a street bike or dirt bike and vice versa. I tried to shift the brake pedal and brake the shift pedal on a Ducati once. I suppose if I had an old Indian I would occasionally twist the spark advance and advance the twist grip...

So I guess I had better stick with standardization. I will always dive with my fins on my feet, my mask on my face pointing forward and my reg in my mouth. I will always keep my knife in the same place in case I forget where my dump valve is and have to slice my wing open.

 

[Thalassamania]

I have occasionally reached for a stick while driving an automatic. I have stepped on the brake in an automatic when my left foot went for a non-existant clutch. (That bounces your head off the steering wheel!) I have shifted the wrong way when transitioning from a race bike to a street bike or dirt bike and vice versa. I tried to shift the brake pedal and brake the shift pedal on a Ducati once. I suppose if I had an old Indian I would occasionally twist the spark advance and advance the twist grip...

Yeah, my wife and I each had Saab Turbos, different color cars, but same color interior. Her's was an automatic, mine a manual, what a nightmare.

 

[koozemani]

If you fight minimalist then there is really no difference between the two.

My basic kit is always the same and I only carry what accessories I might need. When I carry an accessory it is always stowed in the same location to facilitate deployment through muscle memory.

I haven't read every post, so if this has been covered ignore it. But there is something to muscle memory when you need to react under stress. The ability to act without needing to think is priceless when seconds count.

In law enforcement standardization is taught to ensure that when you need to act your training and muscle memory will take over and hopefully save your life. Changing to a new holster, sling, or magazine pouch configuration will lead to muscle confusion and you'll find yourself reaching for air. The least amount if stress is enough to put poorly trained people into fits. Weapons are always carried in the same condition. Magazines are in the same place and oriented the same way. You be able to perform most tasks without needing to think about where an item is and be able to perform them in the dark or even with you eyes closed.

This can be applied to diving in the same way. An emergency happens and you find yourself reaching for the needed gear only to realize that it is no longer where it usually is. Whether its your gear, vacation rentals, or even your buddy toying with a new reg configuration. This leads to panic and then...

 

[Jax]

Interesting . . . people either -

-- carry all their normal gear on every dive [where normal is a personal decision for each] which = train as you will fight . . . or

-- read into the question and decide 'what I really meant' was to carry every single piece of dive equipment they own on every single dive.

I find it also interesting that military and first responders often cite muscle memory and ability to reach for needed equipment without conscious thought.

Basically, the consensus is to train as you will fight and add equipment to meet the requirements of the dive.

 

[wtcreaux]

I find it also interesting that military and first responders often cite muscle memory and ability to reach for needed equipment without conscious thought.

Muscle memory is important (desired) in those activities requiring immediate action (in aviation, law-enforcement, EMS, and firefighting, we called them immediate-action drills). For SCUBA this would, IMHO, include regulators coming off the right-side of my tank, the tank valve being over my left shoulder, weights in each side pocket, BC controls (air in/out) just below my left chest. These can all be done (accomplished) in zero visibility. These are similar to what a police officer may do; i.e. firearm on the right hip (for right-hand dominant officer), extra mags on the left front, handcuffs to small of back, etc.

Think of how the diving industry directed some of this - the BC has LP inflator valve on the left side, ditchable weights are in front, tank valve handles are on the left.


Now where was I going with this?? (Sorry, my dementia is acting up)

 

[AfterDark]

Muscle memory, I always assumed that was the principal reason to run “drills” after the skill(s) had been mastered, to make the mechanics of an action, like say dumping weights a familiar action, something you don’t need to give any thought to doing like tying shoes laces or riding a bicycle. Anything important IMO should be able to be done without looking or giving it much thought beyond if it needs to be done such as deploying a SMB, switching regulators, ditching weights, deploying cutting tools…..things one may not be able to see to accomplish. Muscle memory is the key to that ability.

I have equipment I take on every dive because it is for emergency use. Now I never start a dive planning on having an emergency so as I understand the logic of some camps I should never take these items on a dive…ever.
My knife, SMB/w dive flag attached, signal mirror, small light and a lift bag are SOE on every dive. My pony bottle, wreck reel, large light are examples of things I take on specific dives. I do a lot of night diving, will I ever use my signal mirror at night? Not likely. But then it takes very little space and the weight is nil, so it stays in the pocket.
Anything deeper than 40fsw around here a diver needs a light to see under an overhang so the small light has a permanent place on my harness. Divers need to adapt their equipment to their diving environment and activities.

 

[koozemani]

I have equipment I take on every dive because it is for emergency use. Now I never start a dive planning on having an emergency so as I understand the logic of some camps I should never take these items on a dive…ever.
My knife, SMB/w dive flag attached, signal mirror, small light and a lift bag are SOE on every dive. My pony bottle, wreck reel, large light are examples of things I take on specific dives. I do a lot of night diving, will I ever use my signal mirror at night? Not likely. But then it takes very little space and the weight is nil, so it stays in the pocket.
Anything deeper than 40fsw around here a diver needs a light to see under an overhang so the small light has a permanent place on my harness. Divers need to adapt their equipment to their diving environment and activities.

This is a point that is, IMO, blurring the issue. The importance of muscle memory is not for whether you opt for additional pieces of gear for a certain dive, but for that gear which is essential for surviving an incident. This would be switching reg configurations, moving your cutting tool to a drop pouch rather than on you webbing, not whether you opt for a second slate.

I think being a minimalist can almost go hand in hand with the train as you fight mantra by focussing on what gear is essential rather that what gear is fluff. Train with the essentials, but at the same time, train with new gear that you intend to add for specific dives. It doesn't require a whole lot of time to develop muscle memory, but it does require repetition.

So in conclusion, I don't believe that they are mutually exclusive, rather one is a frame of mind and the other is just a good training mantra. So be either or be both, but the latter will be more likely to come in handy.