NACD Intro - 58cf Limit - Why?

[Thalassamania]

I have to since you keep ducking the question. Do you not understand it?

 

[LiteHedded]

thal's right. sheck taught himself to cave dive. it's fine. I encourage him to try

 

[Adobo]

Here, I'll make it easier for you, what in these standards (taken from TDI, the easiest to find on the web) do you think that our fictional Dirk Pitt has to receive in the confines of a cave diving course?

14 - TDI Cavern Diver Course.pdf
15 - TDI Introductory Cave Diver Course.pdf
16 - TDI Full Cave Diver Course.pdf

One of the most important rules of cave diving is maintaining a continuous guideline to open water. At the beginning of each cave dive, the team is supposed to run a reel to the mainline. (Whether or not that is actually done is a topic for a different day.)

I've run a reel plenty in open water. Its not the same thing as running a reel when you are negative trim heading into a cave. Trying to find a place to tie off for a primary and secondary tie in the opening of a cave (and of course trying to read your way into the cave, finding suitable tie off points that aren't "boobs without nipples") and trying to discern which direction the main line is something that just isn't practical to replicate outside of a cave. Add to that that in some cave systems in Florida, you will have flow that you have to swim/pull against while you run the reel.

That's just the start of the dive.

Then there is reading the cave once you start the dive. In Devil's for example, there is a section at the entrance called the Gallery. If you do not approach the Gallery correctly, you will wind up getting beat up by the flow. Reading a just the first 500ft of Devil's is not something you learn in open water. Its something you experience in the cave where you learn where the flow might be strong and where it might be mild.

And this is part of what a cave instructor might show as part of a cave class.

BTW, I am not some expert cave diver. But I did sleep in a Holiday Inn recently (and took some cave training).

 

[JamesK]

I never once called you an idiot. I never once questioned your skill at the diving you do. As a matter of fact, I am pretty convinced you might a damn good diver after reading your resume. However, damn good divers have killed themsleves without proper training.

I understand that you can teach yourself anything. I have taught myself sidemount diving. However, I still plan on taking a class from the experts when I return to the country before I take it in to any caves. Of course a change of gear configuration is something much easier to teach yourself then a change in diving. Hell, a non diver could teach themselves how to do a deep trimix no mount cave dive by reading and practicing. Does that mean it is smart to do? Hell no.

A lot can be said for formal instruction. I do not claim, and never had claimed to be a cave diving god. I only have ten years experience in it. I consider myself a newb.

I already answered your question. Just because you do not like my answer, does not make it false.

I am not trying to start a fight here, or name call, or disrepsect anyone. If you feel I have, then I apologize. I simply feel that some things a person, no matter how good they might be at it, is better actually learning it then reading about it before they try to do it.

 

[PfcAJ]

Once again you'd rather move the discussion to the logical falacy of an appeal to authority. If I were as far behind as you are, I'd want to do that to. Answer the damn question, then you can show us what a diving god you are.

You're the one that said you've dived caves around here, not me. Tell me about them. If I were as far behind as you, I'd be thumbing a philosophy textbook too looking for 'logical fallacies". Answer the damn question and show us what a copy paste god you are.

 

[Thalassamania]

One need not thumb anything but your posts to find logical falacies (BTW: that's logic and retoric, not philosophy). I am not a cave diver, I have made minor "trust me" forarys into caves with people who were well worthy of my trust. But that's not relevent, what is is the question on the table, that only James has even attempted to answer.

 

[PfcAJ]

One need not thumb anything but your posts to find logical falacies (BTW: that's logic and retoric, not philosophy). I am not a cave diver, I have made minor "trust me" forarys into caves with people who were well worthy of my trust. But that's not relevent, what is is the question on the table, that only James has even attempted to answer.

Common topics in philosophy textbooks. Even a scholar (copy paste expert?) like yourself knows that!

Trust me dives, eh? Gettin better all the time! Keep it going!

And my question on the table remains...what caves did you do trust me forays into? When did you do them? Nevuary 32nd? Nineteen ninety never?

 

[Adobo]

One need not thumb anything but your posts to find logical falacies (BTW: that's logic and retoric, not philosophy). I am not a cave diver, I have made minor "trust me" forarys into caves with people who were well worthy of my trust.

Whatever happened to:

If haven't made the dives, listen to those who have;​

But that's not relevent, what is is the question on the table, that only James has even attempted to answer.

Was my answer no good?

 

[cavemn]

And my question on the table remains...what caves did you do trust me forays into? When did you do them? Nevuary 32nd? Nineteen ninety never?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I have to since you keep ducking the question. Do you not understand it?

Whats the question? I don't want to go through all this thread to find out...