need opinion on LDS and instruction

[tonyc]

Well I'll try ro make a long story short. Just recently I have given up on my lds (SSI PHOENIX, AZ) because of (in my opinion) very poor customer service. The owner there is very into you buying his overpriced gear and nothing else. I just bought a new sherwood scuba reg/octo and console from diver'sdiscount (assembled by Sherwood scuba certified techs). Went to the pool at the lds, told them about it. They said OK you can use the pool but first we have to "inspect" your regulator and asked me to come back in a few hours. They hung my regulator up. Came back 5 hours later at 4:00- my regulator is still hanging in the same place- they say they "haven't finished with it" and ask me to come back in an hour- they close at 6:00. Came back at 5:00 they rush to do some paperwork and hand me my regulator and... A BILL FOR FIFTY DOLLARS!!! WHatever, I pay it, not sure what exactly they inspected on my brand new regulator. I pay and again ask to use the pool and the owner says, "You can't get in the pool now, we close in an hour." I WAITED ALL D*%M@ Day just to try my regulator and instead hang out all day and pay fifty dollars on my only day off- and don't get to use it.

Feeling raped I took my regulator and ran vowing only to return to pick up my basic open water certificate when they finally have it (Did my cert dives one month ago).

Now the problem.... I want to take advanced open water certification, but the other Dive shop (PADI instead of SSI) has what seems like a pretty weak instruction program for aow- 2hrs of classroom followed by a dive trip?? My dilemma is what to do for aow?? I really liked my instructor at SSI, but would prefer never to spend one cent in their store again.Plus, I think the owner (who makes me see red) is the only AOW instructor. These are the only two dive shops within twenty miles of my house.

Thoughts appreciated,
Tony.

 

[WileEDiver]

You might need to be willing to drive a little further if you can't find a shop that works for you closer in. The shop that I like (and use) is 33 miles (about a 45 minute drive) from my house, and I go there at least twice a week. It that worth it to me.

 

[scubajoe]

The shop I work at is 50 miles from my house!

Joe

 

[japan-diver]

$50 to inspect a reg, I wouldn't go back there either. You need to find another store or an independant instructor in the area. The extra drive will be worth it.

 

[Diver0001]

tonyc once bubbled...
<snip>

Came back at 5:00 they rush to do some paperwork and hand me my regulator and... A BILL FOR FIFTY DOLLARS!!! WHatever, I pay it, not sure what exactly they inspected on my brand new regulator.
<snip>

Good lord.

If you had asked my opinion before you parted with your 50 dollars then I would have told you to refuse to let them inspect your new reg and if they made a fuss about it you could have parted ways without being essentially mugged by your LDS.

Even when they DID present you with a bill your best action would have been to say F-U on the spot and put them in the position of having to sue you for it. Essentially you call their bluff.

Now you have your back against the wall. You can probably get your $50 back by making a lot of noise and rattling cages like reporting them to a consumer advocates commission or whatever you have in your area and even getting a lawyer to pen a brief saying that they can reimburse you or explain in court why the inspection of a brand-new reg was necessary and to prove that they actually DID something for their $50. But this is a the hard way. If you feel ripped off it's always better to refuse to pay on the spot and not give away your bargaining leverage.

If you ask me an LDS that would do this deserves what they get. Let's have the full name and address please. They earned this bad press. Let them have it.

Feeling raped

And rightly so

<snip>

Now the problem.... I want to take advanced open water certification, but the other Dive shop (PADI instead of SSI) has what seems like a pretty weak instruction program for aow- 2hrs of classroom followed by a dive trip?? My dilemma is what to do for aow?? I really liked my instructor at SSI, but would prefer never to spend one cent in their store again.Plus, I think the owner (who makes me see red) is the only AOW instructor. These are the only two dive shops within twenty miles of my house.

Well. Let's see. The PADI AOW isn't their strongest course. Let's be up-front about that. Having said that, the biggest difference is always going to be which instructor you get.

You could theoretically ask the PADI Shop about combining AOW with Rescue and getting a discount (you might be able to get this by committing to 2 courses at once). Rescue *is* one of PADI's best courses and you'll learn alot more by taking AOW and rescue one aftre the other.

I would suggest going down and talking to them about the course content. Maybe once you see how they approach it and what's really in the course you might become convinced. Then again maybe not but at least you'll know first hand and in more detail what they're offering.

You can also visit www.padi.com and click on "continue the adventure". There is some informatoin about the advanced course there too.

R..

 

[cantlogon]

with PADI, instructors are able to teach a number of courses...so it's possible the guy you like at the nasty LDS MAY be able to teach AOW...you don't need a pool for that, so you might see if he's able to teach you privately, so he gets the $ and the shop you dislike doesn't. I don't know anything about the SSI AOW course, so you might want to check if it's substantially different from the PADI course as well.

Checking the regulator? That sounds like a "you bought it online so we're gonna mess with you" scam. Especially if you were going to use it in a pool, here's how I'd check it: 1) hook it up to a tank 2) breathe from primary & octopus. 3) if it breathes easily, doesn't free flow, etc, you're good to go. If it was a reg with some history of problems, then you might take it apart and check various things. Don't let them get near your car....they might try to sell you some blinker fluid!

A final thought: since you recently (if I understood your post correctly) got you OW certification, you might consider just trying to get in plenty of diving for the time being. It doesn't HURT to go right into AOW, but it's not necessary, either....divers, in general, improve more from diving than from particular courses (unless it's a specific course for a specific purpose.)

Good luck
Chris
(formerly signing in as "Iruka" until the message board somehow ate that name & won't let me have it back)
www.letsdiveguam.com (in progress)

 

[o2scuba]

Diver0001 once bubbled...

"Good lord.

If you had asked my opinion before you parted with your 50 dollars then I would have told you to refuse to let them inspect your new reg and if they made a fuss about it you could have parted ways without being essentially mugged by your LDS.

Even when they DID present you with a bill your best action would have been to say F-U on the spot and put them in the position of having to sue you for it. Essentially you call their bluff. "




Sounds like they had the regs in their possesion. So Tonyc HAD to pay to get them back (outside of just grabbing them and kicking some butt). Highway robbery! Kinda like a mechanic saying he will check out your new car, then holding it for ransom. If it were me, I would have probably written a check, then stopped payment on it. Then the dive center would be the one to have to file in court(which I highly doubt they would bother doing over $50).

In my state you have to pay something like $25 just to file in small claims court. Add in your time filling out paperwork and missing work to go to court, not always cost effective. For me, it would be a matter of principle and I would probably do it. I recently took 2 days off, drove to New Jersey (from Vermont,4 1/2 hours), stayed overnight, just to fight a $60 traffic ticket....It was worth it, I won, then I popped over to Long Island and caught a Dead show at Jone's Beach (good timing). One of those, "when life gives you lemons....make lemonade" things.

Anyway........
You can also submit a complaint to your state's Attorney Generals Office (consumer protection division) for free. That would trigger an investigation, the dive center would get a "complaint report" and be asked to respond. Give em some extra paperwork and leave a public record of your dis satisfaction.

If you have a record of the service provided by the first tech (sherwood certified tech that you mentioned), that would certainly help your case.

While I don't feel that $50 is a high price for complete dis assebly, cleaning, lubrication, pressure setting and testing, in this case it was overkill if this had already been done, and therefore not necessary.

On the other hand, if the dive center DID find a problem that was a safety issue, perhaps it is the first tech who screwed up. In my work experience, we always go through every reg system thoroughly when we receive it from the manufacturer (as recommended), it is not uncommon to find metal shavings (from manufacturing), dry o rings, and innacurate pressure settings.

Pehaps you could ask your ldc exactly what was done as to justify the charge.

As far as continuing education? You are wise to research your options. Many dive centers (IMO) simply go through the minimum motions regarding AOW. There are also many who provide an informative program, building good habits and teaching new skills.

Wne you inquire, be sure to get a course outline in writing. References from other divers who took the program can be helpful as well.

I'll be happy to send you some info on our program. Of course, you would have to come to Vermont . Another option would be to fly me to some nice Island somewhere, pick up the expenses (Mostly beer) and I will provide private lessons.

Good luck,
Andrew

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Ok, I will probably get flamed for this, but anyways...

I see their side of having to check your reg out to make sure it is good working condition. It is their pool. Their insurance may not cover them if an accident should happen and they allowed a foreign regulator into their pool without examing it. I would have said, congrats on your new purchase, you are going to like this reg, years of trouble free service, etc, etc, and then just hooked it up to the test bench, checked the IP, checked both second stages, and into the pool you go. NO CHARGE. $50 is a little high for the service, if they even did anything. I would try to get them to refund that money back towards an AOW class. See what they say...

 

[Big-t-2538]

Dude...you got hosed....go in there and try on a buch of different BCs...talk about buying some tanks....get a price quote....get ready to buy all of their stuff... (make sure thay have loaded it into your car and such..make them do a bunch of work to please you...about 50$ worth in my opinion)....then just walk out....you'll feel better anyway.


Edit....by the way, make sure you have already found a nother LDS to go to and spend you money at first. Get a good rapport with them...then go piss off the old LDS.

 

[MikeFerrara]

After owning a dive shop for three and a half years and having insurance through two of the three of four agencies that insure dive shops (that I know of) I can say that there's nothing written in any of those policies that tell me when or why to inspect a reg or any other piece of equipment. The insurance companies pretty much leave it to the equipment manufacturer to decide when what, when and how to service their equipment.

I believe there are some online equipment sellers that don't know a reg from a box of soap and after buying from them it might be a good idea to have the reg checked (if you can't do it yourself). Personally if I had doubts about your reg I wouldn't want to touch it. I'd leave the responsibility for it's oporation between you and the guy you got it from.

I would charge you for using the pool though. Pools are really expensive and they need to make money or be filled with dirt.