New access rules to Eagles Nest and Burford.

[PfcAJ]

Pardon the ignorance of a non cave diver. I have read about eagles nest and the Divers who have died in there. Can people not tell the difference between qualified Divers and the ones that thought they could dive a system like that and get themselves killed because they had no business being there.

Eagles nest is a pond out in the bushes. There's no one around. It's a half hour drive down trails just to get to it.

 

[USMC CPL.]

The problem is that there is no one there continually to tell the difference.

Maybe I worded that wrong. As an Aow diver I know better that to dive a cave or any overhead environment because I have not been trained to do so. I know and accept my limitations. I just read the article of the father son team that died there on Christmas. One was a certified ow diver he sone no cert and they descend to 233 feet on air and they die. His is tragic but they rolled the dice and lost. The father should have known better than to dive this and he definitely should have known better than to take his 15 year old non certified son cave diving when he himself probably did not appreciate the risk he was taking. Now you have non Divers wanting to close the system off because of the actions of a few. I guess what I am trying to get at is non Divers need to do a little research before taking action such as closing down a dive spot that appears to be popular with a few Divers on this forum. And how can you call it a killer cave it does not feel it does not breathe and the people that have died there have pushed their skills to far and paid the price. Kinda like climbers on K2 the killer mountain. Sorry for rambling.

Neil

 

[USMC CPL.]

Eagles nest is a pond out in the bushes. There's no one around. It's a half hour drive down trails just to get to it.

Thanks maybe the next post is a little clearer on what I am trying to get at.

 

[PfcAJ]

Maybe I worded that wrong. As an Aow diver I know better that to dive a cave or any overhead environment because I have not been trained to do so. I know and accept my limitations. I just read the article of the father son team that died there on Christmas. One was a certified ow diver he sone no cert and they descend to 233 feet on air and they die. His is tragic but they rolled the dice and lost. The father should have known better than to dive this and he definitely should have known better than to take his 15 year old non certified son cave diving when he himself probably did not appreciate the risk he was taking. Now you have non Divers wanting to close the system off because of the actions of a few. I guess what I am trying to get at is non Divers need to do a little research before taking action such as closing down a dive spot that appears to be popular with a few Divers on this forum. And how can you call it a killer cave it does not feel it does not breathe and the people that have died there have pushed their skills to far and paid the price. Kinda like climbers on K2 the killer mountain. Sorry for rambling.

Neil

People do it because people are dumb. It's not policed and there was no policy to police people.

Nanny state is what you get when people are dumb. The land owner is under no obligation to allow cave diving at all.

 

[PfcAJ]

The locals don't know the difference between divers with 50 cave dives or 500 cave dives.. They just see that no matter how good you are.. Diving in Eagle nest can kill you and it needs to be closed.. You guys opened that door.. I can't wait till you cave divers start calling the game warden on each other... And they start locking up the caves off the ballroom.. As the old saying goes... Watch what you ask for..

Jim..

Hey I found a source for a gate that would work at eagles nest.

 

[DaveJo127]

Thanks maybe the next post is a little clearer on what I am trying to get at.

Check out this video. Gives you a good idea of what it's like.

 

[KevinNM]

Maybe I worded that wrong. As an Aow diver I know better that to dive a cave or any overhead environment because I have not been trained to do so. I know and accept my limitations. I just read the article of the father son team that died there on Christmas. One was a certified ow diver he sone no cert and they descend to 233 feet on air and they die. His is tragic but they rolled the dice and lost. The father should have known better than to dive this and he definitely should have known better than to take his 15 year old non certified son cave diving when he himself probably did not appreciate the risk he was taking. Now you have non Divers wanting to close the system off because of the actions of a few. I guess what I am trying to get at is non Divers need to do a little research before taking action such as closing down a dive spot that appears to be popular with a few Divers on this forum. And how can you call it a killer cave it does not feel it does not breathe and the people that have died there have pushed their skills to far and paid the price. Kinda like climbers on K2 the killer mountain. Sorry for rambling.

Neil

People rarely decide that "today is the day I'm going get killed diving". They normally just fail to understand how dangerous what they are doing really is, often because they have gotten away with something kind of like it before. It's called normalization of deviance in the safety industry.

The two CCR divers who got killed deep inside the system a few months ago were different. They made a decision that proved much more dangerous than expected and then couldn't catch a break, but they had the gear, training and experience to go where they went and fully understood how serious a dive that was.

 

[USMC CPL.]

Check out this video. Gives you a good idea of what it's like.

Ty. Beautiful video.

 

[USMC CPL.]

People rarely decide that "today is the day I'm going get killed diving". They normally just fail to understand how dangerous what they are doing really is, often because they have gotten away with something kind of like it before. It's called normalization of deviance in the safety industry.

The two CCR divers who got killed deep inside the system a few months ago were different. They made a decision that proved much more dangerous than expected and then couldn't catch a break, but they had the gear, training and experience to go where they went and fully understood how serious a dive that was.

I know when I took my ow water course my instructor was very adamant about the dos and don't of diving and diving within your limitations. I guess what I am failing to understand is the father/son duo that died. 233 feet on air no cave training etc etc. And then people start screaming close the cave it is evil. As I said people rolled the dice and lost. They are not holding the failure of the father to be a father and not put his step son in that situation. Holding him accountable as a diver for taking a non diver into that environment. And finally no cave training or tec training.

 

[boulderjohn]

ScubaBoard has a policy that is very different from its normal let-the-posters-take-care-of-the facts policy. ScubaBoard does not allow posts that advocate diving in caves without proper certifications.

Believe me, we have had them over the years. We have had posters claim that cave divers have silly rules requiring secret handshakes (or whatever) that are unnecessary. These people are around, and once they get that in their heads, there is no stopping them. The only thing we can do is keep them from infecting others with that nonsense.

There is a fundamental opposition in thinking with cave diving. If you get the proper training and do dives that are within the limits of that training, it is really surprisingly safe. If you don't get the training and think the rules are for someone other than you, the odds are pretty good you are going to die.