New back plate to improve double hose regulator performance.

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Luis H

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New back plate to improve double hose regulator performance.

Here are some links:
Vintage Double Hose • View topic - New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Vintage Double Hose • View topic - Today

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/missourireb/Backplate/




Last weekend I tried the new plate for the first time with my dry-suit and a brand new Pegasus regulator. Oh did I mentioned that I was also testing a modification on the dry-suit in addition to the new regulator and plate… what could have possibly gone wrong with that.

Anyway it was a great day, sunny, air temperature 36F, and water temperature 46F.

The plate performed great. As expected, it was very stable in and out of the water. It was also very comfortable. I do need to adjust the shoulder straps a bit, but that was expected for being the first time with the dry suit and very heavy undergarment.

This Pegasus double hose regulator has a new Delrin (plastic) second stage. I did the drawings and designed it to be made out of brass, but it was made out of Delrin as a prototype and I decided to test it. So far it works great.

The performance of the Pegasus regulator has been consistently great. The cracking suction is very consistently down around 0.6 inWC. My next project is incorporating the lessons learned from the Pegasus into a new second stage for the Phoenix Royal Aqua Master.


I started modifying and redesigning double hose regulator (and also single hose regulators) for close to 40 years ago (granted I didn’t work on them for a long while), but the improvement have always been measure in decimals of an inch of Water Column. The real performance improvement is coming from shifting my attention from the regulator mechanism, to instead making sure the regulator body is actually touching my back and not moving.

Some back packs (and even harnesses) can allow the regulator to move several inches. A tank mounted BC with a loose harness can also lift the tank and inch or more away from the divers back. Those inches translate directly into increase breathing resistance.

For a while, I have been thinking of ways to make the Phoenix shorter so it would fit on more of the shelf back packs. Well, after diving with my small double and now with the new back plate I don’t think a shorter Phoenix is the way to go.

I like the performance of the regulator physically touching my back. To make a regulator breath easier, you would have to have it surgically implanted.




This is a pretty dive spot here in Maine.

Picture003-3.jpg



I needed to raise the plate (lower the tank) about 1/2 inch and the shoulder straps were too tight. I should have known the tank was going to be too high when I notice that the crotch strap was too short. The dry-suit and undergarment is just very bulky.

Picture006-1.jpg




Notice the new plate and the low profile wing retracted. The two pockets on the tank band are for weights. Depending on the tank I always add some weight on the band.

From this angle you can see that the tank was very high for my taste, being the first time that I used it; I have to make some adjustments.

December112011diving017.jpg



With my dry-suit I like using the DUI weight harness to carry most of my weight. Did I say that I miss Cozumel…? :shock:
I accidentally put my snorkel on the left side. I always wear it on the right side, the old fashion way. It felt weird on the left.

December112011diving012.jpg



In the water the regulator was touching my back, but it was not in the ideal position. It still performed great.

December112011diving003.jpg



We did have some fish and other marine life, but this is not Cozumel. :roll:

December112011diving021.jpg
 
I went diving again yesterday with my new plate and a new Phoenix regulator.
The water temperature was 43 F and the air temperature got up to 22F. I am wearing ski gloves while I am setting up my gear. It is ski season.
The kit was outstanding. I am extremely pleased with the plate and the interaction with any double hose. It works great with the Phoenix.

Below are some pictures:
I did notice my pressure gauge hose was routed wrong right after the picture.
The tank location was very good.

Picture015-2.jpg


Picture016-2.jpg


I set up my kit the night before and took these pictures.
Notice the position of the regulator and the plate. With a steel 72 the Phoenix just sticks a bit past the plate, which is ideal for breathing performance. The curve of the plate matches the can.
Picture012-4.jpg


The straps are adjusted so that there is no way that the metal buckles will touch the can.
Picture009-2.jpg


Picture005.jpg
 
Cool Luis! I have one of these plates coming right now from Vintage Double Hose and hope to modify it to use with doubles and a not-yet-purchased double-hose regulator (I'm saving right now!)

Thanks for all you have done with vintage diving and for posting this.

Cheers, Tim/ 9fingers, Edmonds, WA, USA
 
I'm trying something a little different: I'm having the local canvas shop sew the shoulder straps in place. That way I can get away from the metal sliders and not worry about chipping the pain on my Pheonix.

I'll post pics when I get it back.
 
Cool Luis! I have one of these plates coming right now from Vintage Double Hose and hope to modify it to use with doubles and a not-yet-purchased double-hose regulator (I'm saving right now!)

Thanks for all you have done with vintage diving and for posting this.

Cheers, Tim/ 9fingers, Edmonds, WA, USA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tim,

No Need to modify the back plate..Luis' is a modern version of the 1950s-1960s Seacraft Back Plate produced in Wilimington Mass. was intended for singles only

Seacraft marketed three original back plates, a single tank, # 320 a double # 321 and a tripple #322.

I used this set up for about 50 years and still have four either for doubles or tripples which I will make a drawing and send to luis in the very near future.

So use the current model for singles and the future model for doubles (tripples?)

sdm
 
Last week we had three divers in Providenciales, Turks & Caicos, using the new VDH back plate. We were all using different wings and different regulators, but we were all very happy with our kit.

My high school dive buddy was using the plate with a newer Oxycheq wing and a new Pegasus regulator I built for him. He brought a Scubapro Mk-5 that he wanted to try, but he liked his new DH so much he used it for all his dives.

He may add some comments, but last I know he said that this plate will replace all his other rigs.

My next door neighbor borrowed a plate from me with an older single bladder 30 Lb Oxycheq wing. He used his Aqua Lung Titan/ Scubapro 109 second stage regulator. He also had very positive comments about this back pack/ plate. The plate also works great with a single hose regulator.

I used a Zeagle 24 Lb horseshoe wing with my new Phoenix XTC regulator (more on the regulator later). I can honestly say that this is probably one of the most comfortable, best performing kits I have ever dived with.

The double hose regulator and the plate are a perfect combination. They fit together like a matched pair. I do the final adjustment of the plate after the double hose regulator is in place. That guarantees that the plate position is just under the regulator.

With the Phoenix, the regulator just barely sticks past the plate. This position guarantees that the flat face of the regulator is just touching my back. “For a regulator to breathe any easier it would have to be surgically implanted.”

When I was head down I could feel the air bubbles run under the plate, between the plate and my back. It was a very neat feeling.

Picture013-1.jpg



For those wondering, there will be more details on the new Phoenix XTC to follow. For now I’ll just mention that it has a newly designed second stage with enhanced venturi flow. The venturi flow also has the potential of being easily adjusted.

The most attractive feature of this second stage (following its performance) is its user friendliness and ease of service. The second stage is extremely easy to adjust and fine tune. It is designed to use the single stage diaphragm (there is no need to line up the tabs of the original RAM diaphragm). Theses are all very important design requirements for a modern double hose that will see a lot of use.

The second stage is designed as a complete replacement of the RAM second stage, but it is ideal with the Phoenix RAM (making it the Phoenix XTC).

The reason for holding back on details and pictures is because at first glace the design looks very simple (and therefore it is easy to make a poor copy of it). The key to the design is in the details. Therefore, I am again giving Bryan full rights to produce my design. In the past he has invested a lot of his money to produce high quality parts and I trust that this will be another great project.

More information to follow soon.


The bottom line is that the trip was a great success. For starters, the diving was great. And all the new gear (regulator, plate, wing, rental tank) worked together as an ideal dive unit… It truly exceeded my expectations.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tim,

No Need to modify the back plate..Luis' is a modern version of the 1950s-1960s Seacraft Back Plate produced in Wilimington Mass. was intended for singles only

Seacraft marketed three original back plates, a single tank, # 320 a double # 321 and a tripple #322.

I used this set up for about 50 years and still have four either for doubles or tripples which I will make a drawing and send to luis in the very near future.

So use the current model for singles and the future model for doubles (tripples?)

sdm

Thanks, Sam. I would be VERY interested in the drawing.

I'd really like to see what a set of doubles and triples would dive like . I'm thinking of a modern doubles set of 5.5" diameter faber 45's of 50's for use with my DAAM that Bryan at VDH is doing a total rebuild on. I suppose those could be tripled, but that may be more weight than I'd like to manage on shore dives. I'd also be very interested in knowing what tanks, wings and bands you have used that work well doubled or tripled.

Also, I wish there was a modern center post manifold available to use with either doubles or triples. I've got all the pieces to make a USDivers doubles or triples manifold similar to what the Captain has done- but this won't work with this big of a diameter of tank easily- (he used the older smaller diameter 4.9" Luxfer AL 30's in his triples set). I'd prefer a solid bar manifold and looking into getting a vintage USDivers one or a USD "solid bar yoke" for a set of doubles.

Cheers, Tim Hogan, Edmonds, WA
 
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I just got into double hose scuba this summer, I’ve been looking for a good plate. I’d also be very interested in the drawings. Is that something anyone would be willing to share?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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