New Deep 6 DGX reg at Dive Gear Express

[The Chairman]

it's knocking off yet another apeks design

OK, I believe you said this before and I don't agree. Most regs look similar because they all do the same thing. Do the parts interchange? Well hell, even if they did I really don't care, but I doubt that they do. If Apeks think that there are patent violations, then they should pursue that legally. So far, I haven't heard that they have done this so why try to hijack the thread with baseless aspersions?

 

[2airishuman]

Chris doesn't need to 'learn marketing'. He's beyond that and trying to reinvent it for the Scuba Industry. I've seen Chris reinvent himself three times now, and each iteration is a great improvement over the last. Will he succeed in his attempt? Probably.

Perhaps not. Probably not from me, in any case. I would not necessarily claim to understand marketing, let alone be capable of imparting such knowledge to others.

So, we're just chatting here.

No channel conflict..We don't have dealers. Not in the plan.

Uh, DGX isn't a dealer? I'm confused. They certainly seem like a dealer to me. I send them $1000 a year in little fiddly orders for o-rings, hoses, valves, valve parts, tools, BC parts, and so on. No distributor or wholesaler would put up with that.

We see DGX as a channel for a product at a price point we won't offer, but that they have been very successful in. It will also expose our brand to a wider audience as DGX has a very robust global footprint..

Well, as a consumer, I am confused. I thought that Deep Six stood for direct-to-the-customer sales. I thought that the Deep Six brand, in contrast to Hog, stood for the concept of one mid-priced product in each category rather than a differentiated product line with various price points. I thought Deep Six stood for the mail-in service concept including the "first service is on us" component and the "regs come with service parts in case you need someone to service them fast" component. I found that all to be innovative.

How the new reg being sold by DGX fits into that is beyond me.

 

[2airishuman]

If Apeks think that there are patent violations, then they should pursue that legally.

Are there any patents on regulators that are still valid? Does Apeks hold them? It's an awfully mature technology for patents to be much of a factor.

 

[tbone1004]

OK, I believe you said this before and I don't agree. Most regs look similar because they all do the same thing. Do the parts interchange? Well hell, even if they did I really don't care, but I doubt that they do. If Apeks think that there are patent violations, then they should pursue that legally. So far, I haven't heard that they have done this so why try to hijack the thread with baseless aspersions?

Apeks doesn't hold patents on those designs, but they are blatantly knocked off. Imitation is the best form of flattery, so I don't see an issue with it, and without patents, there's no legal reason not to.
The parts between the HOG D1, now the Deep6 thing through DGX, and the Apeks DST do in fact interchange *did it for the first time myself 7 years ago....*

As far as baseless aspersions, it's known that the design was copied from Apeks, you can't really deny that, so that takes care of baseless, but on the aspersion front, it's not an attack on anyone at all. The design that they use is open so long as you don't have any ethical issues with copying someone elses design. Frankly I see no reason not to, and if they wanted to patent it to protect it, they would have. They didn't, so in the best interest of creating the most versatile regulators, it makes sense to follow in their footsteps

 

[Caveeagle]

Why lie? I love Chris. He's like an older/younger brother at the same time. I don't feel a need to lie to or for him ever. The converse is true and one of the biggest reasons we both trust each other.

I think that is great and respect the loyalty. But are you saying that loyalty would stop you from swapping around compatible parts to make your left handed 2nd stage? (no argument, just was not sure if that's what you meant)

... Maybe DGX will get him to do left hand regs? What a way to be able to charge more and make it distinctively different at the same time.

I doubt the DGX relationship would put any leverage on that decision. the D6/DGX is clearly a budget minded offering designed to compete at a lower price point and stay way clear of the other business model. If the Tech/Cave community does not motivate D6 to produce a LH version through direct sales, I really doubt DGX will add any pressure.

I really like the D6 products and will likely become a customer at some point. For now I have several HOG regs and can't justify a conversion. I do think it benefits consumers (like me) that have several D1 first stages. I suspect the D6/DGX service kits will be compatible and (if that's true).. its nice to have another source for parts.

 

[The Chairman]

But are you saying that loyalty would stop you from swapping around compatible parts to make your left handed 2nd stage?

My gear gets pawed over by more people than anyone else I have see. Why? I guess it's because I'm the chairman. I'm not a better diver. I'm not famous. Maybe I'm a bit infamous to ScubaBoard peeps, but other than that, I'm a wholly unremarkable diver with no big achievements to my name. I'm not special, and yet many people want to know what I dive with and why. Ergo, I keep it legit. I made the mistake once of over modifying some gear I was given and I won't do that again. So, I dive what i dive and I won't try to mislead people. If they can't buy it, I won't dive it. Obviously, this doesn't apply to one offs and prototypes. But, I'm sure you get the gist.

 

[2airishuman]

Apeks doesn't hold patents on those designs, but they are blatantly knocked off. Imitation is the best form of flattery, so I don't see an issue with it, and without patents, there's no legal reason not to.
The parts between the HOG D1, now the Deep6 thing through DGX, and the Apeks DST do in fact interchange *did it for the first time myself 7 years ago....*

As far as baseless aspersions, it's known that the design was copied from Apeks, you can't really deny that, so that takes care of baseless, but on the aspersion front, it's not an attack on anyone at all. The design that they use is open so long as you don't have any ethical issues with copying someone elses design.

Why would there be any ethical issues involved in using the same design that Apeks did? What parts of the design actually originated with Apeks rather than WMD? Do you believe that Apeks paid for exclusive use of one or more design elements that were subsequently copied? Has Apeks complained?

if they wanted to patent it to protect it, they would have.

It isn't possible to patent just anything. It has to be innovative, and have non-obvious new, functional features that were not previously known in the industry. Balanced diaphragm regulators have been around a very long time, as have turrets, as have dry environmental seals. I doubt if there was anything to patent. Adding and moving ports doesn't rise to the level of innovation needed to get a patent granted.

 

[Caveeagle]

..I'm not famous. Maybe I'm a bit infamous to ScubaBoard peeps, but other than that, I'm a wholly unremarkable diver with no big achievements to my name.

Haha.. I did see (what I suspect is) your van driving up hwy 27 through High Springs a couple wks back! If your trying to fly under the radar..... It's sure not obvious..

I'm not special, and yet many people want to know what I dive with and why. Ergo, I keep it legit. I made the mistake once of over modifying some gear I was given and I won't do that again. So, I dive what i dive and I won't try to mislead people. If they can't buy it, I won't dive it. Obviously, this doesn't apply to one offs and prototypes. But, I'm sure you get the gist.

No gear mods?! ..surely you jest! Although I do recognize that swapping out a reg 2nd stage housing between 'brands' might raise blood pressure in some.

 

[Doby45]

I absolutely love my Hog Classic reversible.

 

[cerich]

Uh, DGX isn't a dealer? I'm confused. They certainly seem like a dealer to me. I send them $1000 a year in little fiddly orders for o-rings, hoses, valves, valve parts, tools, BC parts, and so on. No distributor or wholesaler would put up with that.




Well, as a consumer, I am confused. I thought that Deep Six stood for direct-to-the-customer sales. I thought that the Deep Six brand, in contrast to Hog, stood for the concept of one mid-priced product in each category rather than a differentiated product line with various price points. I thought Deep Six stood for the mail-in service concept including the "first service is on us" component and the "regs come with service parts in case you need someone to service them fast" component. I found that all to be innovative.

How the new reg being sold by DGX fits into that is beyond me.

DGX is the exclusive seller of the DGX regulator..made by Deep 6 for them. Think of it as a DGX reg..by Deep 6 versus a Deep 6 product sold thru a dealer. Notice that the actual cover has DGX..not just the Deep 6 logo.

Deep 6 is a direct to consumer and all that you typed.

I get where you are coming from, it's because even I tend to think too often in the old scuba industry model and "channels". I don't think of DGX as a Deep 6 dealer, because they aren't and won't be selling the products I offer at Deep6gear.com.