New DPV - Dive Xtras

[Schwob]

If I turn off SS on my BlackTip, will the prop start up instantly when I double-tap the trigger?

At this point, that and the trim are the only complaints I have. When I double-tap the trigger now (with SS on), it really does seem like it takes way too long to actually start pulling. I've got 11 dives on mine now and it still happens pretty often that I double-tap, it doesn't start, I think I didn't do it right and I let go of the trigger to double-tap against at the same instant I realize it has just started to come on.

It also SEEMS like the startup delay was slightly worse after I upgraded firmware from 1.7.1 to 1.12, and now it seems slightly worse than that with 1.15. However, I will freely admit that it could be exactly the same between all 3 and it is just my imagination there.

Curious: What state does a blacktop remain in if the trigger gets pressed only once (no double tap) and remains depressed (say via jerry-rigged extraneous means maybe Velcro band or bungee loop....)? Stupid thought or a possible way to keep it „off“ even more reliably, or?
Thereafter, does it then reliably require a loosening of the trigger and then a new double press to start?
Does it draw more power then when just sitting idle if it sits idle with single push-perma-depressed trigger?

 

[stuartv]

Curious: What state does a blacktop remain in if the trigger gets pressed only once (no double tap) and remains depressed (say via jerry-rigged extraneous means maybe Velcro band or bungee loop....)? Stupid thought or a possible way to keep it „off“ even more reliably, or?
Thereafter, does it then reliably require a loosening of the trigger and then a new double press to start?
Does it draw more power then when just sitting idle if it sits idle with single push-perma-depressed trigger?

Good question. I have no idea. This seems like a question for @ben.mcgeever.

 

[geoff w]

If I turn off SS on my BlackTip, will the prop start up instantly when I double-tap the trigger?

At this point, that and the trim are the only complaints I have. When I double-tap the trigger now (with SS on), it really does seem like it takes way too long to actually start pulling. I've got 11 dives on mine now and it still happens pretty often that I double-tap, it doesn't start, I think I didn't do it right and I let go of the trigger to double-tap against at the same instant I realize it has just started to come on.

It also SEEMS like the startup delay was slightly worse after I upgraded firmware from 1.7.1 to 1.12, and now it seems slightly worse than that with 1.15. However, I will freely admit that it could be exactly the same between all 3 and it is just my imagination there.

On land there doesn't seem to be much if any startup delay if you turn safe start off, but I haven't dived with it that way. There are a couple of other lightly documented parameters you could experiment with to see if that gets you started more quickly if you leave safe start mode on. Such as "safe start count", maybe try reducing that

I copied and compared the parameters from the last scooter I updated from 1.12 to 1.15, and none of the values changed, so startup delay between those two are probably in your head

Trim is fixable if you're willing to tradeoff weight and cost

 

[stuartv]

On land there doesn't seem to be much if any startup delay if you turn safe start off, but I haven't dived with it that way. There are a couple of other lightly documented parameters you could experiment with to see if that gets you started more quickly if you leave safe start mode on. Such as "safe start count", maybe try reducing that

I copied and compared the parameters from the last scooter I updated from 1.12 to 1.15, and none of the values changed, so startup delay between those two are probably in your head

Trim is fixable if you're willing to tradeoff weight and cost

Yeah, the trim is not worth $350, 5#, and 5" more length to me to fix. I intend to experiment with adding some kind of buoyancy collar and nose weight to it, at some point, to see if I can get it to trim out with the Travel tube. But, I have too much other stuff going on right now to mess with it for a while.

A couple of buddies have turned off SS and seem pretty happy that way, so I am going to try that.

 

[_Ralph]

The Suex XJ14 I borrowed for the course could be switched off during the dive. The Suex XK1's from my fellow teammates and instructor also. My instructor stressed the importance off turning the machine physically off when not in use. This to prevent a runaway scooter. Don't know if other instructors do teach differently? Better find out on forehand before buying.

For me, it's something that makes me hesitant buying an BlackTip. Not saying the BlackTip is not a good scooter, but it's missing some features that are important to me.

Hot dang... a blacktip with a trigger lock!


_R

 

[geoff w]

Yeah, the trim is not worth $350, 5#, and 5" more length to me to fix. I intend to experiment with adding some kind of buoyancy collar and nose weight to it, at some point, to see if I can get it to trim out with the Travel tube. But, I have too much other stuff going on right now to mess with it for a while.

A couple of buddies have turned off SS and seem pretty happy that way, so I am going to try that.

A buddy and I started to experiment with adding buoyancy to the tail, starting with various floats and containers. I think I would start with a gallon jug to start with and slowly fill with water to get some sense of how much tail buoyancy is needed, then add a corresponding amount of lead to the nose. Someone on the Dive-X Facebook support group early on suggested using divinycell, possibly attaching to the outside of the propellor shroud. The orange GoPro stick on weights compress at depth, even though they're closed cell

 

[Rollin]

I was considering the same solution. No Blacktip yet though.

I was planning to use some Stix-floats. I used them in the range of 60m with no problem. Other, home made floats just crushed at these depths

StiX Adjustable Buoyancy Float Belt 10 for Macro Ports

 

[pauldw]

Things I learned elsewhere on the internet about Blacktips:

The first firmware upgrade didn’t work for all machines, as some had display issues. 1.15 was released recently to fix that.

Some Blacktips come with seals still pretty tight, and so the scooter may think it is are underwater right out of the box, and will therefore run up through the gears on dry land even though it isn't supposed to unless underwater. However, they’ll loosen up in the water and run normally.

Some folks like to add a clip to the scooter and clip off to a D ring when not scooting.

As shipped, the tow rope’s clip shouldn’t slide. It should be set up so the top basically comes straight back, and the bottom one angles up, and the arm is at maybe 120 degrees. Some people like to undo that hitch so it slides. I gather it’s a tradeoff, apparently, between being able to push the handle forward and get the thing closer to trim when starting off, versus maneuverability through slipping. Supposedly a very light hand on the handle, pushing forward or pulling back to go up or down, or rotating the scooter left or right on axis to turn, drives it without it having to be manhandled. As long as the tow cord is attached properly I’m still learning the finesse of it, myself.

It should be neutral in the water, after a little tinkering depending on battery weight. Only lunatics try to make it float in a trim position. Neutral and trim are two different things. For long runs, it apparently trims when it gets going, but for short, stop-and-look dives, a model that stays trim all the time like the new longer one might be easier. (Or, if you have self confidence issues, you could just get the really long one, which is naturally trim also, apparently.)

Protect the ends of the tube from denting when the scooter isn’t assembled, because even little dents can leak.

Automobile vinyl wrap seems to be the big thing for tricking them out. However, some people doing that have all but about ½ inch of the tube wrapped, because the 1’ size that costs the least is just not enough, barely. You can get 2’, and you'll have lots left over, but you will also have every bit of the tube wrapped.

Take the batteries out, or they could turn to bricks when they empty on their own. This seems to actually be a real thing.

The popular kayak compass some people use can be switched from straps to bungees by snipping off the straps and running bungee cord through the loops that remain so that it forms a big "O," and the two sides can then be wrapped around the scooter. Might be useful if you switch compasses between scooters. I don't know how slippy that makes it underwater.

 

[Diving Dubai]

On the other hand, switches can and do break. Not being able to turn your scooter off can be an advantage in some cases. Some scooters have an emergency override for these cases. But these scooters are also quite expensive, not to say very expensive and in an other league than the BlackTip

Im my experience Scooter switches fail so as not turning the scooter on, often at the most in opportune moment. That said I'm a fan of isolators

My Sierras use a physical lock to prevent the trigger being turned on, for me this particularly important when the unit is on the dive deck, rolling or striding in with it, and handing it up back to the boat post dive.

However, I do prefer the electrical isolator, since this prevents batteries discharging between dives or on a long tow, and is certainly a requirement for my replacement machine

 

[Diving Dubai]

@AJ Are you worried about a runaway scooter that is not clipped off to anything, so it just takes off into the blue? Or are you worried about a runaway scooter that is clipped off to you, so it drags you up or down or whatever, that you don't want to go?

Of the two, it's hard for me to imagine a BlackTip getting a double tap on the trigger to start it when it's not clipped to you. I.e. if it's just sitting on the bottom or clipped off to something stationary, it's hard to imagine it running away, since it requires a well-timed double tap of the trigger to start it.

If it IS actually clipped to you somewhere, then I could the see possibility of maybe bumping the trigger just right to start it. But, in order to really run away, you would have to bump it just right AND hold it down. That seems extremely unlikely. You could argue that the trigger might stick. But, really? Accidentally double-tap it just right and have it stick on the second tap? That also seems pretty unlikely.

But, I am a total scooter newb, so if there really is a concern here, I hope someone will enlighten me!

Nope, you've pretty much nailed it there. It's almost impossible to switch a scooter on accidently via double tap. Even a runaway that's attached to you is easy to control, unless your tow line is seriously long.