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New tanks VIP? Conflicting answers.

Discussion in 'Tanks, Valves and Bands' started by Nathan Doty, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. ScubaBunga

    ScubaBunga Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: wright city, mo
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    In my vip class my lds did talk about getting in some new tanks that had manufacturing issues that got passed quality checks. Granted these were some foreign cheap tanks, but they did see fold and actual cracks around crown and some that had thread damage. So, rare, but some reason to vip a new tank.
     
    Hoyden and rsingler like this.
  2. Scared Silly

    Scared Silly Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: on the path to perdition
    5,804
    1,409
    113
    Not really a scam but a long history because BITD compressors were not as well maintained as they are today. As such today the likelihood of getting water in a cylinder is much less. However, even today there is still a chance of getting a bad fill.

    That said there are not dive shop employees bur also owners not following industry standards when it comes to fills.

    The above is the real scam as that sticker is BS and has no basis in reality. If I saw a sticker such as that I would tell the cylinder owner that I would be draining their cylinder to take a peek inside before doing a fill and would be happy to do a real inspection and put a real sticker on but they will need to pay for the inspection (with a discount in the name of customer service).

    I would agree with the above.

    Again I would agree. I too would recommend that you talk to your shop and see what they might do in terms of doing the VIP with 10 fills for each cylinder. That might be a compromise given they can not get the cylinders for you, then go the cheapest route.

    Finally, regarding a transfil. The really poor person's transfill is to literally hold the values together face to face. Open the empty cylinder, then the one with pressure, then close the "empty" cylinder, then the one with pressure. If you hold the valves tight enough the empty cylinder will get just enough positive pressure to bleed out when opened.
     
  3. kelemvor

    kelemvor Big Fleshy Monster ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Largo, FL USA
    6,684
    3,808
    113
    A tank that has just had a Hydro (e.g. a new tank) has no need for a VIP. That's why you don't need a sticker on a tank that's just out of it's first or second (etc) hydro test. Some shops may insist otherwise out of ignorance. Others may do it maliciously (to get your money).
     
    lamarpaulski, dead dog and markmud like this.
  4. rsingler

    rsingler Scuba Instructor, Tinkerer in Brass Staff Member ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Napa, California
    4,713
    5,949
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    Couldn't disagree more re: a new tank. A new tank may not need a VIP; it may not need a fancy sticker; but it absolutely needs someone to look at it with a practiced eye.
    1) did this tank come out of the factory without a flaw (before I put 3,000 pounds PER SQ INCH against the walls!)?
    2) did anything crawl or get dropped inside before the valve went on?

    A sticker fractionally ups the odds for the poor guy who first fills the tank. After that, the LDS' safety odds get markedly better.

    Whether or not they choose to charge for it is a business decision. After all, LDS' just RAKE in the money, don'cha know?
     
  5. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Solo Diver

    1,677
    1,167
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    Sounds like you are in good standings with the LDS. I would talk to them about it first. I am sure they understand the delivery issues and you want to buy through them but timing and the available dive season means you have to go online to get them in a timely manor.

    Considering you have already bought tanks from them in the past and likely a bunch of other gear you are probably a good customer for them. If they can keep you in the water, they can keep selling gear to you. I would just ask them if they would slap the sticker on the tanks with the first fill. You might be stressing out and jumping through hoops for something that could be resolved with a talk with the LDS.
     
    Hoyden likes this.
  6. abnfrog

    abnfrog Tech Instructor

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: great white north
    1,871
    1,499
    113
    @RSinger is dead right if you attach a sticker you need to DO THE WORK new tanks have failed .....its rare BUT I HAVE DONE IT.....not many maybe 2 over the years of hundreds if not a thousand passed...if you just slap a sticker on ...you should lose you qualification or have to retake the course ,
     
    rjack321 and OceanEyes like this.
  7. Jack Hammer

    Jack Hammer Solo Diver

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    Sounds great on paper and the majority of tanks come from hydro or the factory looking great. I've personally seen new tanks and tanks back from hydro that had some kind of schmutz in them. My personal double hp130s just came back a few days ago and need to be tumbled due to no rust inhibitor being used and left out to air dry. These are for banked mixes only and don't need O2 cleaning, that much rust is a no go for any tank. If they hadn't been inspected that wouldn't have been found. (Yes, It has been addressed). :)
     
    Hoyden and rjack321 like this.
  8. kelemvor

    kelemvor Big Fleshy Monster ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Largo, FL USA
    6,684
    3,808
    113
    Sure. I mean you look inside with a light just in case it didn't get dried or something like that. Simple stuff. If you feel to double check your hydro facility for much beyond that you might consider switching to a more competent one.

    Just to be transparent here. I've never had to use a sticker like that. I'm fortunate to have a great LDS available to me. The guy would never try to stick it to me for a VIP or anything else that I didn't really need. When I got my tanks hydroed for the first time, we had a conversation on the topic of whether it needed a vip sticker or not. He said it didn't but that he'd throw a sticker on it to alleviate my concerns for no charge. So... it's not a problem I've got to deal with, but if it was, I would not hesitate to have a look inside a freshly hydroed tank with my bore light and put a sticker of my own creation on it if things looked good.
     
    dead dog and markmud like this.
  9. rjack321

    rjack321 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    10,411
    4,870
    113
    I dont work at a shop but that sticker is worse than useless. You might as well advertise that nobody competent has handled the tank.

    Every shop around here requires a VIP sticker even if its 1 month after the date of manufacture.
     
    Hoyden likes this.
  10. rjack321

    rjack321 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    10,411
    4,870
    113
    LP is not including a VIP sticker - your local shop is to supply that
    DR peeks inside and slaps a VIP sticker on the outside but sends the valve separate

    Before you are taking either tank for a fill they end up getting a VIP & sticker
     

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