That is still my fear. Plus I have read many stories here of divers getting their regulator overhalled only to have problems with it on the first dive. I ordered a new Apeks xtx50 for my wife. This time I bought it directly from my "current" lds. My overall experience with my lds has been a mixed bag so we will see where things go.
New XT Free Flowed
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That is still my fear. Plus I have read many stories here of divers getting their regulator overhalled only to have problems with it on the first dive. I ordered a new Apeks xtx50 for my wife. This time I bought it directly from my "current" lds. My overall experience with my lds has been a mixed bag so we will see where things go.
fmerkel
Contributor
Any reg can free flow from the wrong kind of impact. You see that when people are getting into the water all the time. A well tuned sensitive 2nd stage will go into wild free flow if immersed out of your mouth and diaphragm first (no back pressure). You can quickly stop those by putting it in your mouth and blowing, or sticking your finger in the opening. This is actually pretty normal. I had that hassle with my 2nd stage yesterday and just de-tuned it a little.
That is different from a spontaneous free flow underwater that won't stop. That can be pretty scary and empty a tank in very short order. It can be a diving emergency depending on the depth, time underwater, and remaining tank pressure.
Both of those are different from a 2nd stage that 'bubbles' a bit. That can be a real problem just showing itself, or a minor tuning problem on the 1st or 2nd stage. You can do a rough differentiation of that with the IP gauge.
IP has a range. The 2nd stage has to be tuned to that range. 125-135 is pretty normal for the vast majority of regs.
You were not clear if you had a wild free flow, or just some persistent bubbling.
That is different from a spontaneous free flow underwater that won't stop. That can be pretty scary and empty a tank in very short order. It can be a diving emergency depending on the depth, time underwater, and remaining tank pressure.
Both of those are different from a 2nd stage that 'bubbles' a bit. That can be a real problem just showing itself, or a minor tuning problem on the 1st or 2nd stage. You can do a rough differentiation of that with the IP gauge.
IP has a range. The 2nd stage has to be tuned to that range. 125-135 is pretty normal for the vast majority of regs.
You were not clear if you had a wild free flow, or just some persistent bubbling.
fmerkel
Contributor
Yup, that's a bad one. Sounds like you handled it well.
That does sound like a over pressure 1st stage going ballistic.
Got a tank? Hook up the reg, pressurize it, depress the purge say 20x, then just leave it that way. Every hour come back and do it again. If it handles that OK for a bunch of cycles, it should be good to go. It would be really nice to see the IP during this.
My easy rule of thumb: If the IP is over stock pressure and/or creeping steadily > dive is over. Needs attention.
If IP is in normal limits, does not creep, but the 2nd stage is leaking (slow hiss), :> 2nd stage needs small adjustment. If you have an adjustable 2nd you might be able to simply dial it out. If not there is a simple adjustment you can do on many regs in the field in a few minutes with proper tools. That is beyond the scope of this thread....but a temptation to learn more.
That does sound like a over pressure 1st stage going ballistic.
Got a tank? Hook up the reg, pressurize it, depress the purge say 20x, then just leave it that way. Every hour come back and do it again. If it handles that OK for a bunch of cycles, it should be good to go. It would be really nice to see the IP during this.
My easy rule of thumb: If the IP is over stock pressure and/or creeping steadily > dive is over. Needs attention.
If IP is in normal limits, does not creep, but the 2nd stage is leaking (slow hiss), :> 2nd stage needs small adjustment. If you have an adjustable 2nd you might be able to simply dial it out. If not there is a simple adjustment you can do on many regs in the field in a few minutes with proper tools. That is beyond the scope of this thread....but a temptation to learn more.
Caveeagle
Contributor
Not exactly sure who sold you A “new in box” reg that was not an authorized DR dealer. But hey.. I suppose someone could buy and resell. But I have some regs that have been on several dives that I could easily re-box and you probably wouldn’t know it.
Any service tech that told you an IP of 150 was ok,, .....well, I would find another tech.
I don’t think you mentioned it, but did you adjust the +/- or dive/pre dive settings on the second stages?
Also, the IP reading is only half the story, does it lock up? Or creep at all?
I really doubt that first stage left the DR shop with an IP of 150. They do a pretty good job of checking regs before the pack and ship.
Any service tech that told you an IP of 150 was ok,, .....well, I would find another tech.
I don’t think you mentioned it, but did you adjust the +/- or dive/pre dive settings on the second stages?
Also, the IP reading is only half the story, does it lock up? Or creep at all?
I really doubt that first stage left the DR shop with an IP of 150. They do a pretty good job of checking regs before the pack and ship.
I never spoke to the tech. Instructors brought my regulator with them to day two of the pool dives. I couldn’t dive it because The inflator hose didn’t fit (my mistake). Anyways I took the dive rite set back into the shop for a different inflator hose. One of the stores divemasters who was working the store front end told me the IP on the reg was high and to watch it. I should have asked more questions, but this was all new to me still. In my mind it was good to go.
2nds were in dive position ( towards me).
Adjustment knobs were both turned clockwise (towards me) to the most resistance.
fmerkel
Contributor
Pre-dive settings are merely a vane in front of the mouthpiece opening. Their function is to deflect the air output to minimize the probability of free flow. IMO they are damn near worthless. Most people can't tell if they are on or off.They absolutely won't prevent a free flow if you 1st stage and IP are screwed up. In the scheme of reg performance they are trivial.
Sounds like you have 2nd stage adjustments. Hook it up, pressurize, and breathe off it while you run it through the entire range. See what it does. Then, do it underwater. Pay attention to what it feels like and what it is doing. 2nd stages can be very different in how they feel and perform.
Analogy: Amps and speakers - your first stage is the amp, your 2nd stage is the speaker. Both are critical, but the 2nd stage is the one you actually experience, unless the 1st stage is doing bad things. If it's working OK, you should hardly notice it.
Case in point: I normally dive a ScubaPro MK15. Yesterday went out with a MK2, their 'bottom of the line'. Frankly I could not tell any difference.
Yes, learn to dive. Then learn to mess around with equipment. You are already showing an aptitude.
Sounds like you have 2nd stage adjustments. Hook it up, pressurize, and breathe off it while you run it through the entire range. See what it does. Then, do it underwater. Pay attention to what it feels like and what it is doing. 2nd stages can be very different in how they feel and perform.
Analogy: Amps and speakers - your first stage is the amp, your 2nd stage is the speaker. Both are critical, but the 2nd stage is the one you actually experience, unless the 1st stage is doing bad things. If it's working OK, you should hardly notice it.
Case in point: I normally dive a ScubaPro MK15. Yesterday went out with a MK2, their 'bottom of the line'. Frankly I could not tell any difference.
Yes, learn to dive. Then learn to mess around with equipment. You are already showing an aptitude.
There is more to this story than we know. An IP of 150, assuming it's stable, is not that big of a deal, esp if the second stages are balanced, per a DR add, they are. The regs specs the IP at 140 while a bit over spec, 150 is not excessive. If the second stages were set up with an IP of 150 they will work fine, there is no magic about the exact IP value. Balanced second stages deal with excess IP to a point but even unbalanced ones will respond with a slight freefow, rather than a large one. Depending on the tune of the seconds, if they were set with a 140psi IP , I wouldn't expect them to start slight freeflowing until around 150-155 unless the tech who set them up had them right on the edge.....something most techs will not do. These second stages (or at least the ones in the add I looked at) have user adjustable cracking pressure so again, a 150 IP shouldn't be an issue.
Even if the IP was 150 and the second stages set light, the freeflows shouldn't be more than a dribble of air, if it was more then that, there was either a complete first stage failure (stuck open) or operator error. The first appears to be a sealed diaphragm first stage (looking at the add) with pretty much eliminates it freezing which leaves intermittent failure of the first stage or operator error of the second stages. Intermittent first stage failures are almost unheard of so this leads us back to operator error. I an not trying to insult the OP, just logically looking for a cause.
Contrary to what some seem to think, the venturi on many modern regs has a massive impact on second stage performance. The combination of a high IP, light tune on the reg and venturi set to max is a prime candidate for freeflow......this is NOT equipment failure, it is operator error.
This is my best guess of what happened.
During reg recovery skills, the primary second stage was rapidly tossed away which caused it to freeflow (use to see this all the time when I was a working DM), this is NOT equipment failure, it is operator error. Octo was quickly grabbed and as it moved through the water, it too started to freeflow. If they could not stop the freeflow until the tank valve was shut/ tank empty I suspect second stage freezing. Given the water temp and flow capacity of the regs, it is possible that the second stages froze open, a condition that would quickly go away once the freeflow stopped. This is operator error combined with physics and my best guess of what happened.
As I said above, I am not trying to insult the OP but rather trying to come up with logical cause of the issue. If we find the root cause of the problem, it can be prevented from happing again. Bottom line is an IP of 150 is a bit high but not excessive, nor would it cause a large freeflow, esp of both seconds. This leaves 2 possibilities, intermittent first stage failure which is very unlikely or operator error.
Even if the IP was 150 and the second stages set light, the freeflows shouldn't be more than a dribble of air, if it was more then that, there was either a complete first stage failure (stuck open) or operator error. The first appears to be a sealed diaphragm first stage (looking at the add) with pretty much eliminates it freezing which leaves intermittent failure of the first stage or operator error of the second stages. Intermittent first stage failures are almost unheard of so this leads us back to operator error. I an not trying to insult the OP, just logically looking for a cause.
Contrary to what some seem to think, the venturi on many modern regs has a massive impact on second stage performance. The combination of a high IP, light tune on the reg and venturi set to max is a prime candidate for freeflow......this is NOT equipment failure, it is operator error.
This is my best guess of what happened.
During reg recovery skills, the primary second stage was rapidly tossed away which caused it to freeflow (use to see this all the time when I was a working DM), this is NOT equipment failure, it is operator error. Octo was quickly grabbed and as it moved through the water, it too started to freeflow. If they could not stop the freeflow until the tank valve was shut/ tank empty I suspect second stage freezing. Given the water temp and flow capacity of the regs, it is possible that the second stages froze open, a condition that would quickly go away once the freeflow stopped. This is operator error combined with physics and my best guess of what happened.
As I said above, I am not trying to insult the OP but rather trying to come up with logical cause of the issue. If we find the root cause of the problem, it can be prevented from happing again. Bottom line is an IP of 150 is a bit high but not excessive, nor would it cause a large freeflow, esp of both seconds. This leaves 2 possibilities, intermittent first stage failure which is very unlikely or operator error.
fmerkel
Contributor
@ herman has some good stuff to consider. He knows regs. "Operator error" is a real possibility, but this level of problem would be a task to deal with for an experienced diver, let alone one just starting out and in a class situation. Not fun.
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