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No solo diving in overhead environment

Discussion in 'Solo Divers' started by Foxfish, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. Aotus

    Aotus Marine Scientist

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    this was painful to read, and yet impossible to turn away!

    how was the solo forum locked up for so long under the idea that solo diving is dangerous and discussion should be hidden, when for a year now, there's been a "solo diver" with a death wish trying to get cave divers to say it's OK to dive caverns without training!? This thread reaffirms my position that solo certifications should require tech training, so that rec divers don't decide they're tech-qualified. Though, for the life of me, I cannot understand how a rec diver could read a rec manual so closely and miss the point that one should not exceed their training.

    Each page I was waiting to see someone post a link to an obit...Scary stuff...
     
  2. mick allein III

    mick allein III Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Lansing, MI
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    "This thread reaffirms my position that solo certifications should require tech training, so that rec divers don't decide they're tech-qualified. "

    I do not think technical training should be required for solo diving. Diving within in your training and limits is a boundary easily understood by both rec and tec divers. There are plenty of examples of technical divers who overestimate their qualifications and abilities and engage in dangerous diving practices.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Aotus likes this.
  3. markmud

    markmud Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives. ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: South Lebanon, Ohio
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    Hello Aotus,

    Please don't project the OP's rationalization issues on the rest of us recreational solo divers. I know my limitations. I know I don't have perfect trim and finning techniques, and, most importantly, I am not trained and certified for overhead environments or staged decompression--nor do I want to be.

    The main reason I am solo certified is so I can sometimes avoid following the pack, especially when the DM practices for his Olympic level underwater marathon while guiding tourists (yeah, tourists like me, yeah I admit it--I am a vacation diver).

    I sometimes enjoy exploring every nook and cranny within an 80' radius of the boat. Sometimes, I don't exceed 50 fsw in tropical, clear, and current free water. Occasionally, I have followed a single critter in its small home range for many minutes--right under the boat.

    Yeah, I am not tech qualified and I know it--please don't cast me into the OP's lot.

    markm
     
    Aotus and mick allein III like this.
  4. Aotus

    Aotus Marine Scientist

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    Two very good arguments. I'm not sure you've convinced me to totally abandon my opinion on the matter, but you make very good points, and I was clearly a little quick to judge the rest based on one LOST diver.
     
  5. Dr. Lecter

    Dr. Lecter Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: NYC/Honolulu
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    Thinking all solo diving requires a tech cert makes exactly as much sense as the guy who just couldn't wrap his head around the idea that anyone could be solo diving in overheads if some rec solo courses said that was a solo diving no-no.
     
  6. KWS

    KWS ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SE TEXAS
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    You are talking 2 different animals. one is being self reliant the other is coping withthe inherant evils that lie with in the overhead environment. The picture you show appears quite tame, however suden cloud cover adn silting at the opening that is often much smaller than in the pic renders ou with out light. NOw you are in a cave. Silt uo a cavern and head what you tink is out bound and you are subject to being lost. Whats the odds of silting a cavern to no vis. Its easy it only takes a few miss placed kicks adn whth out line to get out you are set up for other than the optimal ending for the dive. There are a list of skills that most seem comfortable with till they are tested . Like lights out and you pull on the line and break it. It is my opinion since i have not taken a formal solo class that compared to cavern and cave it is a cake walk. You always have a way out and that is up. There is no cesa in an overhead. I was in ine cavern and it turned dark when other swimmers silted up the entrance on an overcast day.

    I must say that post #3 wanted me to post "If you have to ask.........." I didnt. Cavern was relative easy for me but that is just me. One thing in your favor is that (assumption) you have a cool head when it comes to handling problems. one thing for sure many of your solutions for solo probably will not apply with an overhead.


     
  7. Aotus

    Aotus Marine Scientist

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    Well that's just dumb. Obviously not the same thing, and I don't understand why you're going to pick on me for thinking that solo diving might be unsafe for a lot of rec-level divers? I conceded that others made good points, that rec solo divers shouldn't be grouped with the nut case that started this thread. Notice that the solo forum is under the tech forum with cave and wreck. I had thought for a long time that solo divers were trained at a high level, akin to tech, but this thread and some reports I've heard of what's actually taught made me question the safety of telling divers (like the OP) that they're cleared to dive solo (on the other hand, making someone dive with the OP seems reckless). Further, if a solo cert is taken as a license to enter overhead or other hazardous situations because they think a solo card means that you're on your own to make the call, the diver is likely to get themselves killed. However, I was mistaken, to the extent that I should not generalize about the classes taught, or the professionalism of rec divers, based on a few class reports and the OP. One very good point made above is that ignoring the limits of one's training and experience is not a mistake limited to rec divers. We should all look at this thread and remember our own limits, and respect the dangers inherent in exceeding those limits.
     
  8. tstormdiver

    tstormdiver Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Kentucky
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    Although solo is considered a recreational certification, as a solo instructor, I view solo diving as an area that is a bit beyond recreational, but maybe not quite full tech. When I started solo diving, I did it off my technical training. The skills I learned from the technical training were much more than what is required for solo. I have never had a solo certification, but my technical training was accepted in lieu of the solo certification to allow me to dive alone. To solo dive within technical levels, is a whole other level. As I put in my very first comments at the beginning of this thread, the diver must be well trained, well experienced & well/ properly equipped. There are instances where being solo in technical diving may actually be safer, than diving with a buddy. A dive team is only as strong as its weakest member. The technical solo diver must carefully assess the increased risk & plan for mitigation accordingly, or else abort or not perform the dive. A lot of times in technical diving it boils down to, how much additional risk do you want to take on, or are prepared to deal with. If a technical diver is not comfortable enough to to possibly do a dive solo, then they should maybe reconsider whether or not they should be technical diving in the first place. I am not saying that they should do solo technical dives,.. but should be prepared to be solo, if needed.
     
    KWS likes this.
  9. Dr. Lecter

    Dr. Lecter Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: NYC/Honolulu
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    There is not one shred of evidence that rec-trained solo divers have any rational basis for doing that, however, any more than a wreck-trained tech diver has a rational basis for going on a cave dive.

    Nor do I see any evidence that solo divers engaged in NDL, non-overhead dives need any "tech" training. Unlike those of us who go seriously deep/in wrecks/in caves, the big air tank in the sky remains their primary source of redundancy - that, IMO, is the primary distinction between rec and tech.

    You're not wrong - solo diving is unsafe for a lot of rec-level divers. It's also unsafe for a lot of tech-level divers, who simply are not mentally equipped (whether by choice or by nature) to handle solo the dives they handle with a buddy/team. Indeed, diving in general is unsafe for a lot of any-level divers...I've lost count of the number of people who are only breathing due to dumb luck (some on here would count me among them :wink: )...and yet, the world turns on.
     
  10. Aotus

    Aotus Marine Scientist

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    I think you're arguing just to argue. I think we're actually on the same page...
     

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