'nother newbie with questions

[Leejnd]

Hi,

I have to say that the people on this board are SO friendly and helpful to all the newbies! This has got to be one of the friendliest boards I've seen (and I'm a prolific poster on some other boards, especially those related to cruising).

So, I just started my PADI OW course. I decided to do this because I did a Discover Scuba while on a cruise ship in Costa Rica in March. I did two dives, including one that was supposed to just be for the certified divers, but only a couple folks signed up so the DM asked me if I wanted to join them, and he stayed with me througout the dive.

From the moment I got underwater I felt completely at home -- I knew I was meant to be there! I had zippo trouble with any of the basic skills. Equalizing came totally naturally -- I didn't even think about it, it just happened. Clearing my mask was a piece of cake. I felt no cloistrophobia at all. The DM said that I was one of his best students, and seemed to be a natural, and he encouraged me to get certfied and keep diving.

So, based on how much I loved it, and how confident he was that I would pick it up very quickly, I signed up for this class and have scheduled a bunch of dives over the next few months, at various places around the world. I started the OW class a couple days ago. We haven't been in the pool yet -- just one classroom session so far -- we go in the pool tomorrow. But now with all this stuff that I've been reading on this board I'm starting to wonder if it's going to be tougher than I thought.

Here are my concerns:

1. Removing the mask -- in the DS class we only had to clear our masks, not remove them. I wear contact lenses. Will this be a problem? I really don't want to have to get prescription glass for my mask, because then I won't be able to see when my mask is OFF! Also, I've read several posts in here about folks feeling panicky when they removed their masks. Is that common?

2. Descending -- I've been reading the threads about difficulties descending, and I didn't recall having any trouble -- but then I remembered that they dropped a line with knots on it and we just pulled ourselves down it. How difficult is it to learn to descend?

3. Bouyancy control -- is this as difficult as I'm reading in here? I don't think we even discussed this in the DS class. I just remember being able to hang out where I wanted. We went down to 50 ft. on the second dive, and I don't recall having any troubles whatsoever in controlling where I was. I didn't play with air in my BCD or anything like that.

4. OW dives -- we're leaving for a Caribbean cruise in two weeks. I will have finished all of the classroom and pool work, and will then only need the four OW dives to finish my certification. I've scheduled these dives with LDS's in St. Thomas and St. Marteen. Is there any problem with doing it this way? Is there anything I should be aware of, or I should tell the OW instructors?

For my final question, I'm not sure if I should be posting it here, or in the geographical board, but I'll try it here first. I'm taking another cruise in November, from Auckland, NZ through Tahiti to Los Angeles. I've booked a number of dives on that cruise. One of the islands we'll be visiting is Rangiroa, and there are two dives listed: the Outer Reef, for "experienced certified divers", and Tiputa Pass Current Drift, for "active advanced divers". I've been reading that Tiputa Pass is supposed to be phenomenal. I've been thinking about signing up for the AOW class between now and Nov., but now I'm wondering if I'm trying to go too fast? Okay, so I might instead sign up for the Outer Reef dive, but that one says for "experienced" certified divers. How many dives do I need to do before I'm considered "experienced" enough to do that dive?

One final question about Rangiroa -- the Outer Reef dive mentions a "deep blue water ascent". I've seen reference to that in a couple threads -- can someone tell me what that is, and how it differs from a regular ascent?

Thanks so much for any help you all can give me!

LeeAnne

 

[sasscuba]

Welcome to the board.

 

[Matteo]

first of all do you have a job and if so, are they hiring? ...sounds like you do a LOT of travelling

as for the skills you mentioned, it sounds like you are already very comfortable in the water and it should not be very difficult for you to get a grasp on these basic essentials...these are all things that SHOULD be covered thoroughly in your OW class...make sure that you take the time to become comfortable with each of them and if you're not, let your instructor know and make sure that he/she takes the time to get you comfortable with them...this also goes for the instructor on your check-out dives since it appears that it will be a different person...do not be afraid to ask questions and register concerns with them...if you do not get satisfactory answers or explanations, then you need to find someone else that can accomodate you

as for the specific dives you mentioned on your upcoming Pacific cruise, I have no knowledge or experience with those areas, but you will certainly find someone here that does, probably in the appropriate regional forums

welcome to the underwater world, welcome to SB, and let us know how it all goes

 

[rjpv]

Hi LeeAnne,

To answer your questions...

1.) I wear contacts as well. When I did the mask removal tasks, I simply closed my eyes to prevent my lenses from wandering off. Now, in a real lost-mask situation, you might lose your contacts, but generally they are adherent enough (and shrink a bit in salt water) that it is rare for them to fall off even with eyes open and no mask.

2.) The thing with descending is, what is considered ideal buoyancy at depth often ends up being not-quite-negative (aka, sinkable) at the surface. By far the hardest part is the first 10 feet, after that neoprene compression makes things easier. Two tips: when free descending (no rope), exhale and push yourself under with your arms or, if need be, actually flip over and kick down. Note that head-down, it is almost impossible to equalize, so you will need to stop, right yourself and equalize every few feet. Also, be sure your weight is distributed properly. This means that, sitting at the surface, you are not rolling forwards or backwards but are happily vertical. Otherwise, you will have an awkward and amusing descent, rolling around.

3.) Buoyancy control is hard. Most people (without even realizing) start off being negative (ie, sinking) and kicking upwards to maintain depth without risking an uncontrolled ascent. This is... ok (certainly better than an uncontrolled ascent) but will take alot of energy, meaning you will be more tired and use more air. Over time your 'feel' for the right amount of weight will improve and your buoyancy problems will go away - it will get better with every dive.

4.) Totally fine option, a lot of people do that. Try and pick a reputable place and you should have a great time - also make sure your LDS is familiar with your certification agency (ie, going to a PADI 5 star shop to do SSI checkout dives is not ideal). Telling the staff that you are doing your OW checkout dives is all they need to know, unless you are a special case (ie: does any task really make you nervous? Do you have problems equalizing? Do you find yourself too positive at the end of a dive? Etc etc.)

One last bit of advice - note that your weighting requirements will change, as you might be wearing a different type of wetsuit and saltwater is... I forget the term, but supports you more than pool water. So, if you haven't already, ask them to show you how to do a buoyancy check at the surface - a great skill for all divers!

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

My thoughts and opinions.

1. I always close my eyes when performing the mask removal drill. While I have never worn contacts I believe that should prevent you from losing them. Do note however the purpose of this drill is so that when your mask is knocked off of your face for whatever reason you know how to handle it, obviously you won't have advanced notice then. I had my mask kicked completely off my face for the first time this last weekend, training kicked in and it wasn't a big deal. As for a fealing of panic when removing your mask, yes this is fairly common but I wouldn't dwell on it. Your instructor isn't going to take you down to 50 ft to have you demonstrate this the first time, it will be done in very shallow water in the pool. You'll have plenty of opportunity to practice it before doing it in OW.

2. Descending isn't difficult, it's just requires a little bit of practice. If you were having to pull yourself down then you were either not properly weighted, not exhaling, or finning. You were probably doing all of the above. Your instructor will go over proper weighting with you. To decend you will need to simply deflate your BC, exhale, and not kick your feet. If you cross your ankles that will be a good way to stop from finning. This is unnatural at first but you will quickly get the hang of it.

3. Getting good buoyancy underwater is probably not going to happen in just a handful of dives. There are many threads on the board regarding this. Just make sure you are properly weighted and try to maintain a horizontal trim when you're in the water. Most new divers will try to use their BCD too much to control their buoyancy, you should try to control your buoyancy as much as possible just through breath control. As I said previously, there are many other threads on this topic that will give a much better in depth explanation than this short little blurb, do a quick search.

4. If possible I would try to get your OW dives taken care of before your vacation. This will allow you to really enjoy your dives while on vacation. If you do your OW dives on vacation you are going to miss out on quite a bit as you are going to have to go over all your skills. Also if you end up having problems with a skill I think it would be best to find that out at home before you go on vacation so you can practice it more if neccessary. But it appears you don't have a lot of time.

5. I wouldn't sign up for any dives that state they are for "experienced" or "advanced" divers. Also taking the AOW class doesn't make you an advanced diver, it mostly exposes you to additional types of dives. I have already taken my AOW class and I would not attempt any of those dives. If you really want to do those dives inquire about hiring a DM, that would probably keep you out of most trouble but as I said I just wouldn't do it. As for when to take AOW, that's a source of much debate. My personal opinion is that you should have complete comfort under water, good buoyancy control, and probably at least 20 dives under your belt before you take the class.

 

[rjpv]

PS: I'd leave the advanced dives alone since you are just now getting OW certified. Ask how experienced the dive staff thinks you should be, and why the dive is advanced - is it deep? A wall dive? Lots of current? Overhead environments?

With that information you will better be able to make an informed decision, but even then I'd hold off so soon after your OW cert.

 

[loosebits]

1. Removing the mask -- in the DS class we only had to clear our masks, not remove them. I wear contact lenses. Will this be a problem? I really don't want to have to get prescription glass for my mask, because then I won't be able to see when my mask is OFF! Also, I've read several posts in here about folks feeling panicky when they removed their masks. Is that common?

Shouldn't be an issue with contacts.. keep them eyes shut. And yes, panic is quite common with taking your mask off. Some people just aren't comfortable with breathing through their mouth with water in their nose. It's easy to get over. Stick your head in the tub with a snorkel, no mask.

2. Descending -- I've been reading the threads about difficulties descending, and I didn't recall having any trouble -- but then I remembered that they dropped a line with knots on it and we just pulled ourselves down it. How difficult is it to learn to descend?

I've never had an issue with it but I've seen several people with that problem. Not sure what the issue is.

3. Bouyancy control -- is this as difficult as I'm reading in here? I don't think we even discussed this in the DS class. I just remember being able to hang out where I wanted. We went down to 50 ft. on the second dive, and I don't recall having any troubles whatsoever in controlling where I was. I didn't play with air in my BCD or anything like that.

Well, if you are going to be neutral throughout a dive, you're going to need air in your BC in the begining to compensate for the weight of the air in your tank. As you ascend or decend, you will need to vent or add air to the BC to compensate for compression/expansion. My guess is if you never used your BC, you were using your fins to keep you off the bottom. That works but it is very ineffecient and if you ever find yourself in a silty envionment (e.g. lakes or quarrries), you'll make a real mess of things.

It does take a while to really master buoyancy control (and trim) and many people never do, here's what good buoyancy control looks like:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=2109168&postcount=20

here's what most divers look like:

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/sh.../55157/cat/514

How many dives do I need to do before I'm considered "experienced" enough to do that dive?

No one can answer that one as it varies from diver to diver.

One final question about Rangiroa -- the Outer Reef dive mentions a "deep blue water ascent". I've seen reference to that in a couple threads -- can someone tell me what that is, and how it differs from a regular ascent?

They are refering to ascending in the middle of the water column without any visual references to gauge your ascent rate.

 

[Diveral]

Hi,

Here are my concerns:

1. Removing the mask -- in the DS class we only had to clear our masks, not remove them. I wear contact lenses. Will this be a problem? I really don't want to have to get prescription glass for my mask, because then I won't be able to see when my mask is OFF! Also, I've read several posts in here about folks feeling panicky when they removed their masks. Is that common?

2. Descending -- I've been reading the threads about difficulties descending, and I didn't recall having any trouble -- but then I remembered that they dropped a line with knots on it and we just pulled ourselves down it. How difficult is it to learn to descend?

3. Bouyancy control -- is this as difficult as I'm reading in here? I don't think we even discussed this in the DS class. I just remember being able to hang out where I wanted. We went down to 50 ft. on the second dive, and I don't recall having any troubles whatsoever in controlling where I was. I didn't play with air in my BCD or anything like that.

4. OW dives -- we're leaving for a Caribbean cruise in two weeks. I will have finished all of the classroom and pool work, and will then only need the four OW dives to finish my certification. I've scheduled these dives with LDS's in St. Thomas and St. Marteen. Is there any problem with doing it this way? Is there anything I should be aware of, or I should tell the OW instructors?

For my final question, I'm not sure if I should be posting it here, or in the geographical board, but I'll try it here first. I'm taking another cruise in November, from Auckland, NZ through Tahiti to Los Angeles. I've booked a number of dives on that cruise. One of the islands we'll be visiting is Rangiroa, and there are two dives listed: the Outer Reef, for "experienced certified divers", and Tiputa Pass Current Drift, for "active advanced divers". I've been reading that Tiputa Pass is supposed to be phenomenal. I've been thinking about signing up for the AOW class between now and Nov., but now I'm wondering if I'm trying to go too fast? Okay, so I might instead sign up for the Outer Reef dive, but that one says for "experienced" certified divers. How many dives do I need to do before I'm considered "experienced" enough to do that dive?

One final question about Rangiroa -- the Outer Reef dive mentions a "deep blue water ascent". I've seen reference to that in a couple threads -- can someone tell me what that is, and how it differs from a regular ascent?

Thanks so much for any help you all can give me!

LeeAnne

Welcome LeeAnne! :14:

I am very glad you had such a delightful experience with the short or resort course. That you felt such ease while diving is a good sign. I am glad you signed up for the full course and sought information here. There are some great divers who are also very passionate about the sport that hang out here. They will be able to provide you with some great advice. I am not an instructor but have been diving a while and will offer what help I can.

1. It is very common to experience anxiety when a mask floods or comes off. However it is a vital skill to learn because we all have had leaky masks and having a dive buddy accidentally kick of a mask while descending and ascending on lines are a frequent occurrence. You should practice it until you are comfortable. Very good divers can swim a ways without a mask while breathing off of a regulator. As far as contacts go. They occasionally get flushed out but haven't been as big of a problem as expected. The limited wear disposable type it is the best for diving. Carry an extra pair. Usually neither contact is lost when flushing or removing a mask. Occasionally one or even more rarely both will be lost. If its a big concern for you I would learn to close one eye immediately when flooding and clearing a mask and open it after you clear the mask.

2. Descending isn't a big problem, buoyancy control is. Learn to descend by venting your BC and try to assume a horizontal or head first aspect while descending. Pulling down lines are an efficient way to descend and conserve air and energy. You will need to learn to anticipate when and how much air to add to your BC. make sure the instructor shows you how to do this.

3. I hit some of this above. It sounds like you are a natural or just got lucky in your weighting and gear configuration on your resort dive. Again not a big issue with practice and proper instruction. If the course and instructor doesn't give this much attention during your OW course ask plenty of questions and ask for extra instruction during the pool sessions and checkout dives. You should be able to hover horizontally a few feet from the bottom and control your buoyancy with your breathing. If you can do this for about 3 minutes you are well on your way.

4. No problem with referral checkout type dives. Just make sure all of the paperwork is in order. Also ask the instructors there to spend a little extra time in showing you proper buoyancy control.

5. I'd hold off on those advanced dives until you have at least 25-100 dives under your weight belt. There are other really good easier dives around that location that you should probably do instead. AOW is really not a great substitute for experience especially for the dives you mention. It's more of a liability crutch for the operators on these type of dives. Mind you AOW is a great idea and I encourage you to go ahead and do it. But you are not an Advanced Diver in any meaningful sense of the word when you complete it. You are merely a better and more comfortable diver. I personally think you maybe should try easier dives this time and shoot for those more extreme dives next time you go there.

A deep bluewater ascent sounds like a free ascent in deep water. Maybe as a part of a wall dive. Definitely for really advanced divers. Make it your goal to gather the experience to perform these type of dives but it is really too early for them in November.

Best of luck and welcome to the club,
AL

 

[Leejnd]

Wow, I was right, you guys really ARE great!

Thanks for all the info and advice about the skills. I'm relieved to hear that contacts are not a big problem. I do wear the disposable types, so I'll be sure to bring a couple extra pairs with me.

As for bouyancy, I suspect I just had a really good DM who managed to get my weight right, as I don't recall having to kick or do anything at all to maintain bouyancy just above the bottom, it was effortless. And my air lasted a long time -- as long as the DM's! But obviously I'm going to have to learn a lot more about bouyancy control, so I'll be sure to really focus on that in the pool.

I wish we could do the OW dives before we go, but the class ends on the 23rd and we leave on the 25th! So it'll have to be the referral dives. In fact, that's been one of my concerns, that I won't have much time to really enjoy the dives if I'm spending so much time doing the skills. Can anyone give me some sort of estimate how long it takes? Of course I realize that it depends on how well I do them...but assuming that I do them fine, will I have much time to explore?

I must say I'm REALLY disappointed about the Rangiroa dives. Those are the only two dives that the ship offers on that island. (I'm scheduling most of my dives directly with the dive crew on the ship, as it's just easier that way). I may see if I can sign up for an easier dive with a LDS on the island, as I don't want to miss out on diving there completely! I guess I should stop reading all the info on the web about how great those two dives are...it'll just bum me out. But I'm not going to do something foolish that's going to put me at risk. I figure y'all must know what you're talking about in here.

Oh, as for my job, I'm a writer so I can work from anywhere. It's definitely an advantage! I love to travel, and I've made a committment to myself to put travel among my top life priorities now. I spend far more money on travel than I do on any material things -- I'd rather stockpile memories than things. Plus, when my kids were small we did mostly camping trips for vacations. Now that they're teens I'm able to do a lot more travel, either with them or without them. They're coming with us on this Caribbean criuse, but I'm doing the NZ-LA cruise with my Mom and leaving the rest of the fam home!

LeeAnne

 

[sandjeep]

I wear contact lenses. Will this be a problem? I really don't want to have to get prescription glass for my mask, because then I won't be able to see when my mask is OFF!

Welcome, glasses can be a pain, but a prescription mask is actually cheap compared to regular glasses. Once I gear up, I throw my glasses in my mask case and put my mask and fins on and stride.

A person I dove with a few weekends ago lost one of their contacts while in the water and ended up taking the other one out as well. I suppose the answer is what ever you feel comfortable doing.