Now I understand

[Jim Lapenta]

There is nothing wrong with finding an instructor on Craigslist. As long as you know what questions to ask. That's why there is a whole chapter with 22 questions you should ask OF ANY instructor in my book. Getting an instructor through a shop or agency website is no more of a guarantee of quality than finding one on Craigslist, the local newspaper classifieds, or flyers on a telephone pole.
And as for dive planning on training dives, those are the dives where the student should be doing the bulk of the planning under the supervision of the instructor who will add details, correct items, and allow the student to make a mistake or two that will then be corrected. Instructors not allowing this is why there are so many mindless sheep who just follow the DM into what could be oblivion.

 

[AfterDark]

How certain are you that supervised use of nitrox is a standards violation? My impression (non-actionable level of confidence) was that it is allowed. After all dry-suit use in OWD is allowed and that adds considerably more risk than nitrox over a hard bottom considerably shallower than the MOD.

PADI AOW consists of a series of 'adventure' dives, each being the first dive of a specialty course. Cannot nitrox be selected as one of the specialties? Requiring dives for the nitrox specialty is of course an entirely separate discussion - when I took NAUI nitrox there were no dives, just a few hours in a classroom. Don't remember Advanced Nitrox (TDI) being a whole lot more complicated...

---------- Post added March 12th, 2014 at 03:28 PM ----------



Not to pick too many nits - but at least PADI is changing this paradigm. Under new standards even in OWD course students plan their dives and follow their own plan. Instructor reviews plans for reasonableness and correct deco management. Incidences like the one discussed in this thread are a large driver for the change. Also it has been observed that students who planned the dives within the class are far more willing to continue planning their own dives and continue diving after the class. Those students for whom the instructor did dive planning within the class remain far more dependent for dive planning, and far more reluctant to force their group to remain on plan. Gee - better instruction results in better knowledge retention and confidence for the students - resulting in more diving, enjoyment and safety. Duh.

Glad PADI listened to scubaboard while revising their instruction standards!

I think you misunderstood but that's ok. The trainer is the one picking what skills when and where the trainee will demonstrate. The depth and duration of the dive would be set by the trainer no? They know what they expect the trainee to do and will choose the time and place during the dive. So the trainee could plan the dive around whatever parameters the trainer provides but I think planning the entire dive might leave the trainer out!

 

[danvolker]

I don't plan on taking any more courses until I get over 50 dives (or more). The only one that I'm interested in is Caverns, but I need to get my competence level up a lot before doing that.

I'll go back to my original shop for that or maybe to one of the specialty cave shops that we have here. No more Craigslist.

One last word on Tom, it did me good when his tank fell off after all his ranting on the subject during the last dive.

BK

Today many people think it is great to use the Internet to find the best "Deal"....With Scuba instruction, this is very much like the line in the Movie Armageddon, where one guy says : " [FONT=Droid Sans, sans-serif]You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Sans, sans-serif]Personally, I would prefer the highest quality company doing the assembling....and in Scuba, this is your using PEOPLE YOU KNOW, to find the BEST Dive Instructor possible for YOU...This does not mean the most expensive, it means WHO is best for you.

In any event....on your trip to Palm Beach and the BHB Marine Park, you also dove with JASA.....JASA has some Excellent Instructors, one named Jason comes to mind as exceptional.....and you already have a feel for the operation....If you plan another trip to Palm Beach, you could call Jason ( get him on the phone via Jim Abernethy's Scuba Adventures | ) and discuss with him the perfect form of instruction you need, and what they could create for you on your next trip. The big plus side of instruction in Palm Beach, is that there are so many environments here, that you can learn how to easily handle virtually ANY dive Destination in the world....short of Cave diving destinations like Mexico....and as you are "in" North Florida, you have a wealth of Cave and Cavern instructors if you ever get interested in that.....but I suggest ocean first, as there is much more to see, it is far less likely to KILL a student than a CAVE DIVE, and becoming a good ocean diver, will help you in knowing enough to be able to recognize what is good or bad about the Cave Instructors you interview--so you can do a much better job in this critical future choice.[/FONT]

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The big plus side of instruction in Palm Beach, is that there are so many environments here, that you can learn how to easily handle virtually ANY dive Destination in the world....short of Cave diving destinations like Mexico....

I've heard that claim made about other places ... including the Pacific Northwest ... and have found it to be highly optimistic. I'm sure there are challenging environments available in your area, but it's South Florida for crissakes ... it's not going to train you how to dive cold water in a drysuit, heavy undergarment, drygloves, and a hood ... you just don't use that equipment there. It's not going to train you to dive in 3-4 foot visibility or for surf entries like you get in SoCal ... you just don't have conditions in south Florida that would prepare you for that experience. It might give you an opportunity to learn a variety of skills that would make it easier to adapt to those different environments, but there's no place in this world that will give you the opportunity to "learn how to easily handle virtually ANY dive Destination in the world" ... the only way to learn how to easily handle a specific environmental condition is to go dive in it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[chillyinCanada]

Dan, you really should try and get out more. Hee hee

 

[danvolker]

I've heard that claim made about other places ... including the Pacific Northwest ... and have found it to be highly optimistic. I'm sure there are challenging environments available in your area, but it's South Florida for crissakes ... it's not going to train you how to dive cold water in a drysuit, heavy undergarment, drygloves, and a hood ... you just don't use that equipment there. It's not going to train you to dive in 3-4 foot visibility or for surf entries like you get in SoCal ... you just don't have conditions in south Florida that would prepare you for that experience. It might give you an opportunity to learn a variety of skills that would make it easier to adapt to those different environments, but there's no place in this world that will give you the opportunity to "learn how to easily handle virtually ANY dive Destination in the world" ... the only way to learn how to easily handle a specific environmental condition is to go dive in it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Sorry Bob,
I should have said....that training in Palm Beach will prepare you well for the vast majority of Dream Dive Destinations around the world...And note that these would primarily be high vis and warm enough for wetsuits, or they would not be top Dive Tourism destinations. I am talking about places like Fiji, or Bali, Palau, the Great Barrier Reef, Grand Cayman, Mexico, the Virgin Islands, the Soloman Islands, the Bahamas, and the Florida Keys.
We have high silt environments at the BHB, where we can easily simulate a silt-out....and by diving in non-high tide periods, we can get divers comfortable in the 3 to 5 foot vis common at low tide.

Personally, I don't see COLD Water Dive Destinations, even really fun ones, as being on the bucket list for the majority of Vacation divers. I think the cold water diving, is for the people that live in very cold water areas, and try to make the best of it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Personally, I don't see COLD Water Dive Destinations, even really fun ones, as being on the bucket list for the majority of Vacation divers. I think the cold water diving, is for the people that live in very cold water areas, and try to make the best of it.

Well, it is effort to dive here ... and I'm sure it's nothing like the Blue Heron Bridge ... but those of us who have to put up with it do try to make the best of it ...

FWIW - these were taken at a place that Jacques Cousteau once called one of his top five favorite dive destinations in all the world ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[danvolker]

Bob,
I have heard awesome things about your area.....TS&M has spent time chatting with Sandra and I about it....and to us it sounds like a place that belongs on OUR bucket list....But, Sandra and I dive a little bit more often than the people we are generalizing about
The cold water makes no difference to me....Sandra uses a dry suit all winter here....the only thing with her is that she gets cold easier than anyone else I know...so I might need to add an electric heated undergarment to her drysuit....
I would wear the Semi-Dry by Aqua-Lung, with a Thermulution heated undershirt inside...and probably my Extra Force Fins, given the typical dive behaviors I have heard of there. This changes Nothing for me in how I dive daily--other than that I have to kick with higher cadence with the Extra Force fins than I do with my DiveR freeedive fins.

 

[HtwoO]

Hi all. My first post. New diver. My boyfriend makes me read books and forums about diving accidents and mishaps so I have a better understanding and respect for the dangers of playing 'fish' a hundred feet under water. So here I am.
What troubles me most about this post is not so much the instructor's interest in cameras and sharks.....but that he felt it was ok to share air with you to extend your dive time. As a newbie, we are constantly reminded to dive within our safety limits. To always come up with plenty of reserve. It is shocking to me that he would not enforce that in practice. Please, please, PLEASE report him before somebody gets hurt....or gets certified thinking it's ok to disregard very basic rules of safety.
people who are new to diving, for the most part, have absolutely no respect for the trouble they can get into under water. It's all about fun. Not about all the silly little protocols we had to read about to pass a three or seven day certification test.
On my first vacation dive, I followed a dive master under a big boat, close to propellers. My boyfriend yanked my fins and pulled me back. I had no idea why. When we surfaced, he was clearly upset, but controlled when telling me that I should NEVER go near boat propellers. I was defensive, saying that I was only following our dive master, like I'm SUPPOSED to do. That evening he sat me down and taught me that I should never blindly follow anyone that way; that although DMs are knowledgable and experienced, they aren't always as careful as they ought to be, and with any industry or profession, there are good and bad ones. He stressed that I am responsible for my own safety, that I have to use my own brains, awareness and judgment. It was tough to hear, but he was right. I think PADI dumbs things down and churns out certifications without ensuring that students are learning better decision making skills in what can often be a dangerous environment.

 

[DCBC]

If a Diver comes to me with an OW card, I use to believe that this was a sign of competence. The training standards and training time being what they are, this is no longer the case. It's unfortunate, but it has been my experience that seldom do these divers have the skill-sets necessary to be certified to dive independently.

There may be a problem with OW divers seeking AOW training in-that some OW divers should not have been certified in the first-place. Most require much more diving experience before they take on the next program. From what you've indicated, perhaps this may be the case with you. Additional diving experience would provide the confidence that's required for you to present yourself for training at the next level.

Divers are suppose to be competent before they are certified. Although I expect a new diver to be competent, I realize that they're inexperienced. For this reason I do not carry a camera (unless I'm teaching an underwater photography course), nor do I know of any instructor who does. I'd report your experience to both training agencies.