NTSB CONCEPTION HEARING - THIS TUESDAY @ 10AM

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I’ve been watching scuba board for the past year. Looking for real info. But no one is providing it. Ken kurtis gives what he wants and spins it the way he wants. Biased. Fine. We all have our perspectives and opinions and are entitled to them. I’m tired of “listening” to a bunch of people justifying the deaths of 34 people, it’s grossing me out now.

If someone can’t listen to the other side then what’s the point of having a board?

im a former customer of Glen Fritzler. (Hopefully everyone becomes a former customer too.) He lied to me for years. Jerry lied too. I was promised the best, the safest, the most professional. I asked. What they didn’t tell me was that they were habitually breaking a federal law. Breaking the law on all vessels, the truth, vision, and conception. That’s no coincidence. .
Breaking Federal law. That’s why FBI was involved.

So I don’t get to express my dissatisfaction?
Like the ntsb, I’m sickened to learn that this is how many other dive operations work. It’s Gross Negligence and it’s infuriating.

personally attacking some one and showing them they’re wrong are different. I’ve only said what most here refuse to acknowledge.

Glen Fritzler and truth aquatics killed 34 people. Manslaughter charges will be filed. That’s not my opinion. That's a fact. My opinion is that you should all be pissed of too.

tell me I’m wrong.

Ken has been factual and evenhanded in his presentation of this - fitting with his reputation on this board and in the California dive community. "Harsh but fair" in my book is exactly what I expect (and as a citizen, demand) from a legal and regulatory process. My one experience sitting on a jury I listened to the evidence, took notes, filtered out the circus theatrics from the lawyers (mostly the defense; maybe I should have made it clear in voir dire that I don't like being lied to), and pushed for a thorough review of the exhibits during deliberations. While I wanted to lock the guy up and throw away the key, in my role I had to consider the law and the evidence and could only convict him on one of the three charges. I wasn't happy that the max penalty for that conviction was 5 years in prison and a $250k fine and as I recall he got less, but that decision was up to a federal judge and the legal statutes.

For the record, I've never been out on one a Truth Aquatics boat and don't know any of the parties involved. Several of my friends knew folks who died on the Conception, and I definitely have concerns about how widespread issues like overloaded electrical outlets/wiring, flammable construction, inadequate fire alarms, emergency egress, and lack of a night watch are in the overall LOB world. I was very disturbed when the RSA 1 had a near-similar fire less than two months later, when everyone in the industry should have been on their toes and the only saving factor (for all but one of the passengers) might have been that it happened earlier in the evening and not at 3 am. As part of that discussion I remember someone bringing up issues on the Socorro Aggressor that would have made me take a hard nope.

TA had a reputation for being a safe operation in no small part because the USCG looked over their boats as required by law and signed off on them year after year. Now we know those regs were inadequate and did not identify multiple safety issues that killed 34 people when things went bad. TA does ultimately bear responsibility and I have little doubt there will be legal action forthcoming; however, to my understanding the only instance where they actually violated existing law was the lack of a roving patrol as mandated in the COI. As presented here however, the USCG does not check for that and hasn't issued a citation for it in almost three decades; it appears to be a common violation in the LOB industry. That does not excuse it in any way, but does identify it as a widespread problem not limited to TA. Some of us - myself included - initially thought this requirement was filled because of the early report that a crewman had checked the salon and galley around 0230. As we found out, that crewman then went upstairs and went to sleep. Had there been a crewman awake and walking the decks 20 minutes later some or all of those 34 might still be alive. That was the final safety measure that could have prevented loss of life; after that any discussion about the usefulness of the exit hatch or firefighting response is most likely a moot point.

Than let me be succinct. Your posts are on the edge of being a personal attack on Ken. Personal attacks are not tolerated. Can I make it any clearer for you? There are special rules for the A&I forum.

I personally lost 2 friends and a crewmember in that fire, but I don’t go around attacking the local guy who is working hard to get the rest of us the whole story. If you don’t like the message or the forum it’s presented in, pass on by.

I can't really put it any better than Frank has.
 
Regardless of what Ken said, and I notice he's not done much convincing in all these pages, the core issue driving the one man lynch mob seems to be the concept that not following safety procedures somehow diminished the value of the boat rides he apparently took and that is particularly vexing to him and his focus is more about pinning blame. We're pissed it happened too but nothing will change the past and we don't decide the punishment so we just try to learn so we might avoid it ourselves. A whole lot of people now think about how a boat is designed, what can happen and what did happen.

Those hours also confirmed that it is awesome being in the great outdoors but I'm ok with just staying in the aircon with the computers and just paying for a ride.
 
Electrically, phone chargers etc are not consuming a lot of power. So it is seldom a power issue, even with multiple extension blocks plugged in

Except that the wiring between the power source and the one socket the "multiple extension blocks plugged in" is also rated for certain amount of juice and can overheat and smoulder inside its conduits where nobody's going to see it, rowing watch or not. "A lot of power" isn't the issue, more power than the wires can carry is.

We had to replace a building UPS at work--. Which involved re-plugging all 24/7 kit into the non-UPS'ed sockets for the duration. In the process we found a circuit with a dozen 15A power sockets all terminating on one 15A breaker in the distribution room (found the hard way, of course). Thankfully it was a breaker that blew and not the actual wires in this case, but I would be entirely unsurprised if someplace else they'd just put in a bigger breaker as customers started bringing in more "extension blocks", and called it a job well done.
 
Maybe vessels built for the leisure market, of fiberglass encapsulated ply, are unsuitable for commercial vessels carrying fare-paying passengers?
 
Maybe vessels built for the leisure market, of fiberglass encapsulated ply, are unsuitable for commercial vessels carrying fare-paying passengers?
Perhaps, but these 3 TA boats were the first ever purpose built liveaboard dive boats I had ever heard of. There are a few more today.
 
Perhaps, but these 3 TA boats were the first ever purpose built liveaboard dive boats I had ever heard of. There are a few more today.
... of fiberglass encapsulated ply? It really burns fast.
 
Perhaps, but these 3 TA boats were the first ever purpose built liveaboard dive boats I had ever heard of. There are a few more today.

I believe the Peace was the first purpose built SoCal liveaboard dive boat, the Truth was a copy only larger, the Vision and Conception were sister ships based on the Truth with the exit from berthing moved to the front of the galley/lounge. I personally liked the exit from berthing at the rear of the galley/lounge onto the stern deck, as on the Peace and Truth.
 
... of fiberglass encapsulated ply? It really burns fast.

You know what else burns fast?
Homes made of truss construction and mobile homes and yet folks still continue to buy them. Safety has a price...
Not everyone can afford safety at all cost.
 
But homes out for hire are called hotels and they are subject to more rigorous building codes.
 
But homes out for hire are called hotels and they are subject to more rigorous building codes.
We own 30+ homes for hire. Same building codes.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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