NTSB opens public docket on Conception fire

[Shasta_man]

I realize now the first thing to ask when getting on the liveaboard is where are the life jackets, what is the egress from my room or any location and then who is watching the boat when we are sleeping.

Not having anyone awake seems to clearly defy common sense. Perhaps I'm older and know shart happens now but seems pretty amazing that no one and particularly the captain thought it unreasonable to sleep every night with no one on watch just for the first and most classic danger which would be fire, given you're on a confined space (a boat) in a place where you could even die of exposure once you get off the boat. That someone out of multiple crew members didn't come to that conclusion seems surprising. I've been nearly all on boats in non-US destinations and while I specifically

I speculate and point out to the boards readers that this all likely came from complacency and that this is where laws come from. I speculate that it all came down to it never happened before so eventually they became complacent and accepted it as a routine. The fact that they did that when it's a specific regulation is all the more shocking but this is complacency and it happens in many situations. Driving intoxicated is not a problem until you get pulled over, crash and die or kill someone. For some, not even then.

The lack of egress particularly to a direct exit from the boat rather than just into another room also seems less than common sense though I understand the first concern on a boat is keeping the water out.

I note that the egress problem also applies on land. Saw a house for sale down the street that had built a room in one lane of a three car garage. No windows, 1 door. Entering, after this experience and my common sense, I was immediately struck by how this could be death trap in a fire. Great room for the kids until you killed them in a fire because of not considering this.

I can imagine unfortunately, what the survivors heard after waking will be with them the rest of their lives.

 

[O-ring]

*snip*

I can imagine unfortunately, what the survivors heard after waking will be with them the rest of their lives.

If you meant noises from the victims, nothing I have read indicates that any of the survivors reported ever hearing any noises, etc. from any of the victims or the berthing area.

EDIT - here's a link to the report of the first crew member awake that mentions the scream. That could have come from one of the victims, but I don't recall reading that a source was ever identified.

https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/64000-64499/64213/638773.pdf

EDIT (again..sorry) - I reviewed the reports from the other surviving crewmembers and they all report being woken up by the first crew member's shouts of fire. It stands to reason, albeit highly speculative, that if all the other survivors were asleep until the surviving crewmember that heard the chair and the scream woke them up then the scream had to have come from one of the victims.

 

[KevinNM]

I realize now the first thing to ask when getting on the liveaboard is where are the life jackets, what is the egress from my room or any location and then who is watching the boat when we are sleeping.

Not having anyone awake seems to clearly defy common sense. Perhaps I'm older and know shart happens now but seems pretty amazing that no one and particularly the captain thought it unreasonable to sleep every night with no one on watch just for the first and most classic danger which would be fire, given you're on a confined space (a boat) in a place where you could even die of exposure once you get off the boat. That someone out of multiple crew members didn't come to that conclusion seems surprising. I've been nearly all on boats in non-US destinations and while I specifically

I speculate and point out to the boards readers that this all likely came from complacency and that this is where laws come from. I speculate that it all came down to it never happened before so eventually they became complacent and accepted it as a routine. The fact that they did that when it's a specific regulation is all the more shocking but this is complacency and it happens in many situations. Driving intoxicated is not a problem until you get pulled over, crash and die or kill someone. For some, not even then.

The lack of egress particularly to a direct exit from the boat rather than just into another room also seems less than common sense though I understand the first concern on a boat is keeping the water out.

I note that the egress problem also applies on land. Saw a house for sale down the street that had built a room in one lane of a three car garage. No windows, 1 door. Entering, after this experience and my common sense, I was immediately struck by how this could be death trap in a fire. Great room for the kids until you killed them in a fire because of not considering this.

I can imagine unfortunately, what the survivors heard after waking will be with them the rest of their lives.

Almost all the Coast Guard, FAA, SOLAS etc rules were created because someone died.

 

[rjack321]

Not having anyone awake seems to clearly defy common sense. Perhaps I'm older and know shart happens now but seems pretty amazing that no one and particularly the captain thought it unreasonable to sleep every night with no one on watch just for the first and most classic danger which would be fire, given you're on a confined space (a boat) in a place where you could even die of exposure once you get off the boat. That someone out of multiple crew members didn't come to that conclusion seems surprising.

The captain and crew didnt have to think of it. Having a "roving watchman" whenever a passenger was below decks was a requirement of their COI and every other COI for California liveaboards. They only had to read and comply with that. I suspect the CG uses the term roving for 2 reasons, there are lots of different spaces on a boat that arent visible from a central location and even cameras arent 100% compared to eyes, nose, and ears. For instance you will smell a fuel leak into the bilges long before you will see one. Or hear a GPS anchor watch alarm before seeing that you've moved. Plus moving around (roving) helps avoid drifting off the sleep in the middle of a watch.

 

[markmud]

The captain and crew didnt have to think of it. Having a "roving watchman" whenever a passenger was below decks was a requirement of their COI and every other COI for California liveaboards. They only had to read and comply with that. I suspect the CG uses the term roving for 2 reasons, there are lots of different spaces on a boat that arent visible from a central location and even cameras arent 100% compared to eyes, nose, and ears. For instance you will smell a fuel leak into the bilges long before you will see one. Or hear a GPS anchor watch alarm before seeing that you've moved. Plus moving around (roving) helps avoid drifting off the sleep in the middle of a watch.

Hi rjack321,

Great post and I can't add anything to it. So I won't.

cheers,
m

 

[markmud]

Interesting that the captain was prevented from testifying to the NTSB by the US Attorney.

Hmmm...he copped a plea deal, turned state's evidence, or both? Dunno and may not know until sentencing?

With this report, I think the speculating over whether this is strictly a civil case, or a criminal/civil case is now over.

cheers,
m

 

[cerich]

That should encourage US dive boat operations!

I would hope it encourages them to be professionals, the Captain and owner of Conception clearly were not. Not just not professional but completely negligent and callous around safety at sea of the vessel, passengers, and crew.

 

[cerich]

Based on this, the crew can’t be much blamed for what happened after they were awakened by the fire. But how it got to them being wakened by their boat on fire is a whole different issue.

Based on this the Captain should be in jail IMHO and the Mate, as a licensed mariner as well. They deliberately and knowingly violated the law and their duty of care in an extremely negligent manner. Same with owner of Truth.

The non licensed crew however can't be expected to know what they don't know.

 

[nolatom]

I read the Second Captain's and Galley hand's transcripts, and the informative summary in Attachment A. Plus the layouts schematics, and photos, the happy ones from a fun-looking sistership, and the awful one of her burned to the waterline.

It made me feel just plain sad. Several times I wanted to shout, "No!! no! Don't turn in! Have someone stay in the galley salon near the bunkroom stairwell! Please!"

One thing stuck out to me--this was a three-deck vessel, with the wheelhouse and crew racks on the top level. I'm used to the two 100' aluminum converted-crewboats, out of Freeport for Stetson and Flower Garden Banks (ask Wookie, (Frank)one of them was his boat. Though larger than Conception, these boats were more of a two-deck layout, with the wheelhouse only a couple of steps up from the salon, galley, and main deck. So anything going awry in the salon or elsewhere, would be hard to miss.

On a couple of occasions I was a fill-in and had the night watch. It was more natural to get up and walk/rove around while we were moored way offshore, than it might have been if my station (and also my bunk) were one whole deck up.

 

[Bob DBF]

...pretty amazing that no one and particularly the captain thought it unreasonable to sleep every night with no one on watch just for the first and most classic danger which would be fire,

And the other which would be dragging anchor and running aground. The SoCal boats anchor very close to shore for shelter and would not have a lot of time to make correction.

I note that the egress problem also applies on land. Saw a house for sale down the street that had built a room in one lane of a three car garage. No windows, 1 door.

I think you will find the room was not permitted, and is not allowed in the building code. And when found by the authorities, would be cited, fined, and made to remove it from the building. If lucky, before the loss of life.