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On Your Own: The Buddy System Rebutted By Bob Halstead

Discussion in 'Solo Divers' started by happy-diver, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. mac64

    mac64 Barracuda

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Ireland
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    I believe any diver can learn to dive alone but no agency can teach you everything you need to learn. Sooner or later you have to get in the water on your own and come up with a system to suit your needs and minimize any associated risk. There isn’t an agency on this earth that would condone the personal risk that some divers are prepared to take.
     
    Dark Wolf, Bob DBF and KWS like this.
  2. KWS

    KWS ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SE TEXAS
    4,299
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    I too agree with PADI's use of self reliant. It is the overall best way to go. They can do that becasue for lack of better terms,,,, They can copy a solo course adn just rename it and the documented materials legal purpose for the course. Doing that says they still do not promote diving with out a buddy, and for dive operations their self reliant card will be counted equal to another agencies solo card. It is a win win. And I say that mostly from a legal outlook. I find no fault with PADI on this. The chain of events would be completely different if PADI did self reliant as a ice breaking aspect to diving instead of trailing behind. PADI is a business and if ther is a buck to be made ,,,, like all the other agencies.... then they have to pursue a slice of that market. That fact that they were behind the curve and had to reconcile themselves regarding the appearance of solo when compared to their core standards of buddy diving pushed them to this middle ground solution. Its a business decision, and overall a wise one. The just have to teach the equivilant skills and then say you dive buddies but if you get separated you will not perish. Othere agencies call it like it is .... A course that teaches skills to dive alone. Its all in presentation. I find the distinction from some in entering the water alone and coming out of hte water alone amusing. Kind of like the difference between stealing and barrowing indefinately with out the owners approval.
     
  3. KWS

    KWS ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SE TEXAS
    4,299
    987
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    And that is the result of how time has changed their position over the years. Im waiting to see how the various agencies are going to treat use of recreational rebreathers. They right now are not that popular, as far as demand for training, But the day will come where one agency after another will slowly come on line with them also, That day will be a very long one also.
     
  4. tursiops

    tursiops Marine Scientist and Master Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: U.S. East Coast
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    Are you suggesting PADI is not doing rebreather training?
     
    NAUI Wowie likes this.
  5. jlcnuke

    jlcnuke Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: acworth ga
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    As someone who recently did PADI's "Self-Reliant" course I can tell you personally that the course does teach self-reliance for the purpose of diving whether with a buddy or solo, and the course is definitely designed to ensure you are capable of safely diving alone. However, it also teaches you to be a more responsible/capable buddy at the same time. Calling it a Solo diver course would not reflect the full breadth of the course materials imo. I think the title is more accurate as is, than if it said "solo diver" personally.
     
  6. KWS

    KWS ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SE TEXAS
    4,299
    987
    113

    NO IM NOT

    I said that the same thing would happen (reluctance and then over time slow implementation of new training areasthroughout the industry) when it comes to recreational rebreathers. If padi has already made that transition then good for them. I dont have any serious interest in them so i dont folllow those training pipe lines. A similar reluctance existed in the cave community. RB's at one time just did not fit the established model, built around the existing OC diving, Lots of organizational opposition to using them. Even then a few started teaching it as it related to cave environment, and now it has spread to wider/full acceptance. Nitrox went through a similar phase. """"mixed gas means technical diving"""" not a recreational area of training. and that NOW has equally been accepted through now all agencies teaching recreational courses.
     
  7. EFX

    EFX Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: North Central Florida
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    This is not what I claimed to be mutually exclusive.
     
    Colliam7 and caruso like this.
  8. EFX

    EFX Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: North Central Florida
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    After reading Halstead's article on bad buddies I agree with his general premise that there is not enough education and training to learn to be a good buddy. However, he throws the "baby out with the bath water". Rather than promoting good buddy skills he pushes solo diving skills. I've got nothing against learning to be self-sufficient but you can be self-sufficient and not be a good buddy. How does one acquire self-sufficiency skills outside of a solo-diving specialty if the prerequisite is 100 dives? Halstead does a great job of listing all the ways a diver can be a bad buddy (angry diver, untrained diver, egotistic diver, etc.) but where is the list of cons for solo diving? Others have mentioned a few. Halstead assumes that every solo diver's equipment, judgement, ability, and luck are superior to a buddy's. He does say if you must buddy dive go with someone you trust. Great. Unfortunatly, we don't all have the luxury of interviewing prospective divers before our dives. Better training on actual needed buddy skills probably similar to GUE's approach to team diving, but not as extensive, would go a long way. That's my $0.02 worth.
     
    Dark Wolf and Bob DBF like this.
  9. NAUI Wowie

    NAUI Wowie Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Silicon Valley northern CA
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    No one is really saying what you are implying. Some on this thread are beating a drum that buddy diving is unsafe and solo diving is safer. AS A GENERAL PRINCIPLE.

    That is false. Diving is safer for almost all divers with others nearby BECAUSE most divers are not like people on scubaboard. We all do tropical dives we all know what im talking about. most average divers if alone will do very stupid things sooner or later which they will need to be bailed out of.

    is that anyone reading this forum? possibly but not likely. We , even us ones with few dives, are a lot more careful than all that.
     
  10. NAUI Wowie

    NAUI Wowie Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Silicon Valley northern CA
    724
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    you just posted the best reason most average to below average divers should NEVER solo dive.
     

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