Overweight instructors

[adurso]

Well, we do it just like every other way we draw the line. There has to be MINIMUM but REASONABLE physical standards. My gripe is this whole PC idea that everyone SHOULD be allowed to do anything. Everyone CAN accomplish anything and everyone should be allowed to do everything are two different things. If someone has a hurt back and is unable to say, lift their own tank, should we allow them to be put in a position where they may have to lift a student?

People need to know their limitations and figure out how to work to overcome them, not expect everyone else to say it's okay, do it anyways.

Who would be the one(s) to enforce sanctions against those who are violating the "SHOULD be allowed to do anything" rule?

 

[Clammy]

Who would be the one(s) to enforce sanctions against those who are violating the "SHOULD be allowed to do anything" rule?

Huh? I'm not saying that everyone should be allowed to do anything. I said that I have a gripe against that very notion or idea. Where does enforcement fall into play in that?

 

[tstormdiver]

Well,.... I'm female, 5'6" & about 200lbs. Yes..... that puts me in the category of being obese, by the medical profession. I say this not to brag in any way, that's just the way it is right now. I am working on slowly losing the weight; I didn't gain it fast & I won't lose it fast. However, despite being heavy, I am quite active & still quite flexible. Just a few weeks ago working as a dive master for some check- out dives, I had to rescue a student who got into an uncontrolled descent & froze up. I caught him at about 70ft. Because he was frozen up, I had to do all the work to get us back to the surface. At the end of it, yes, I was breathing quite hard (part adrenaline pumping & part, yes, I could stand to be in a bit better shape), but I got us both up safely. As a brand new instructor, I have yet to teach any students myself & that will be after some mentoring from more experienced instructors. I have had to demonstrate all the skills required in the course & then some, although a little practice to get them perfected is needed, it never hurts to keep working on the basics. My IT/IC did not take it at all easy on me, just because I'm heavy. He expected exactly the same out of me as he did the others in the class. Just because someone is overweight, doesn't mean that they should or shouldn't be allowed to do something. As was stated above, some with limited range of motion have to develop ways of working around the problem. As was also said above, don't judge a book by it's cover.

 

[Clammy]

Well,.... I'm female, 5'6" & about 200lbs. Yes..... that puts me in the category of being obese, by the medical profession. I say this not to brag in any way, that's just the way it is right now. I am working on slowly losing the weight; I didn't gain it fast & I won't lose it fast. However, despite being heavy, I am quite active & still quite flexible. Just a few weeks ago working as a dive master for some check- out dives, I had to rescue a student who got into an uncontrolled descent & froze up. I caught him at about 70ft. Because he was frozen up, I had to do all the work to get us back to the surface. At the end of it, yes, I was breathing quite hard (part adrenaline pumping & part, yes, I could stand to be in a bit better shape), but I got us both up safely. As a brand new instructor, I have yet to teach any students myself & that will be after some mentoring from more experienced instructors. I have had to demonstrate all the skills required in the course & then some, although a little practice to get them perfected is needed, it never hurts to keep working on the basics. My IT/IC did not take it at all easy on me, just because I'm heavy. He expected exactly the same out of me as he did the others in the class. Just because someone is overweight, doesn't mean that they should or shouldn't be allowed to do something. As was stated above, some with limited range of motion have to develop ways of working around the problem. As was also said above, don't judge a book by it's cover.

I'm not judging anyone by their cover. I'm not blanket covering that everyone who is obese is UNABLE to do things. What I'm saying is that there is an attitude that everyone who is obese SHOULD be allowed to do the same things as someone that is fit without scrutiny. It's so taboo in the United States to talk about weight or to restrict anyone because they are overweight. Yet you yourself are still trying to lose the weight, good for you by the way. I doubt that you would argue that it is indeed safer and better to be fit period. Whether it's for diving, running, or just plain breathing and living. It's just better, safer, and makes you more physically able to handle physically stressful situations. So why is it that no one is able to tell another person that they should get fit or that they should meet a minimum fitness requirement? Like I said before, having the skills can mitigate some physical issues just as being physically strong can mitigate some skill issues, yet no one says that because you are super fit, you don't need the skills. I think skills are probably more important but being physically fit is something that effects everything else you do. It also doesn't take a lot of money or gear to do. It takes a little self control and a little time.

 

[ScubaSteve]

i think the point here is that as long as a person can perform all skills and keep the diver/students safe (incluing rescue), then there should be no question about them instructing. Once they are no longer able to perform all required skills and keep the divers/students safe, then they should no longer be able to instruct. When someone goes blind, do we let them continue to certify vehiclular drivers? Well, it would seem that answer is yes on the highways i drive every day but the answer is no. If someone in incapable of performing all aspects on their own (within reason - and i think it is reasonable to say that a student could help carry a person to shore imho) then they should not be working with students.

'nuff said......

 

[String]

If you can meet the physical standards required of you then weight doesn't matter.

However a large % of fat human whales can't meet those standards therefore should not be teaching (or potentially diving at all). If you cant meet the physical standards it doesnt matter WHAT you weight you should not be teaching.

 

[leapfrog]

Interesting thread. A number of overlapping points.

Health, Fitness, Safety, Skills and so on.

As far as Instructors are concerned there are some minimum standards that have to be met and are covered by my certification agency by the 800 meter swim with snorkel, mask and fins. Now that's a cinch.

The DM requirements of 800 swim, 400 swim and 15 meters treading water with 2 minutes hands out seems pretty minimal to me too.

Apart from the post which said that we are supposed to be fit to dive and to teach, we are role models. Is vastly overweight and not being able toput your own fins on a role model?

I am 5' 10" tall and weigh under 160 lbs. If I am not going to dive, I run. Every single day. As another post said there are pressups, pushups, situps and so on. You don't need a health club.

I have been trained by some pretty big guys in my time and I had no problem with that. I don't remember one of them not being able to kit up on their own in a second or not to be able to pull somebody out of the water or tow them a couple of hundred yards.

As an instructor, if the s*** ever does hit the fan (and you can be sure that one day it will) everybody is going to be watching you to see what you do and how you do it. I would think that any instructor would want to be physically capable of handling most of the situations that we have been trained for.

So I think instructors owe it to themselves and their students to be physically fit (we could start a thread on defining what "physically fit" means but the topic has already been posted many times on the Board).

Students have to be capable of a 10 minute swim/float and either a 200 yard continuous swim or a 300 yard snorkel, mask and fins.

I think all of these are real minimums. The handicapped are another issue and none of my remarks apply to them.

To take part in any physical activity the participants should be fit enough to partake. Sounds pretty dumb but it makes sense to me.

As far as I am concerned, if someone who is not handicapped cannot kit up (with the help of their buddy) and walk 800 yards with the kit across a beach and into the sea maybe they should be thinking about doing another activity, like just plain snorkeling.

If the instructor can't do it and be fine (meaning not gasping for air) when he gets to the water and put his fins on maybe he should become a bowling coach.

Stay fit. Stay healthy. Be safe. Have the skills.

 

[adurso]

Huh? I'm not saying that everyone should be allowed to do anything. I said that I have a gripe against that very notion or idea. Where does enforcement fall into play in that?

You do not want people who want to do something to be allowed to do it. Who will keep them from doing whatever it is that you feel they should not be allowed to do?

Who sets the rules and who enforces them?

You apparently believe that fat people should not be allowed to dive or instruct. Who will keep them from doing so?

Who decides who is too fat to dive or instruct?

 

[Clammy]

You do not want people who want to do something to be allowed to do it. Who will keep them from doing whatever it is that you feel they should not be allowed to do?

Who sets the rules and who enforces them?

You apparently believe that fat people should not be allowed to dive or instruct. Who will keep them from doing so?

Who decides who is too fat to dive or instruct?

No, I did not say that they shouldn't be allowed to. I said that there are minimum requirements that should be met. And, as previously stated over and over again, I am talking about FITNESS, not weight. Although, they tend to be related.

I also didn't say that people that want to do something shouldn't be allowed to do it. I said the idea that anyone SHOULD be allowed to do anything without scrutiny is a problem. I also stated that you should know your own limitations and figure out how to overcome them. My issue is that there is a PC idea that obesity is not a problem or not a hinderance in any activity and that it's not a factor in deciding whether you SHOULD do it or not. But in fact, it is. And because it is, you should know that you might have to prep yourself, your body, to do certain things. And that you should also have to maintain yourself. But instead, people feel they can and should just jump into things and that no one should be able to say anything about it!

 

[String]

I have to ask... what does that medical cost and who is it paid to? Sounds like government intervention to me...

Varies from £100 to £130 for first one and about £90 annually after that. Paid to the doctor.

Yes its government intervention but a very good one. It ensures a sensible standard of fitness for those responsible to others. A lot of HSE/ACoP regulator is completely ridiculous for recreational style diving but the medical is a good thing.