Padi AOW by default?

[CPrincess]

Hmmm, I hope for their sake they have a contingency plan for people who can't stick with the same instructor throughout. If it is true that the head organization doesnt honor their own specialty certifications as proof of completing the Adventure and/or Advanced then it doesnt seem like a good business model.
What if a shop goes out of business or you move away before completingthe required specialties and have to complete it in your new town? Other than finding an understanding instructor who is willing to honor completed specialties then it seems discouraging to those people in an oddball situation.
Fyi, We've done things that interest the kids like Fish ID and Nitrox for practical reasons. We planned to do wreck earlier this year but an issue came up. I don't doubt that overtime we will just collect a bunch of them just for fun, and maybe in the process someone will sign for our Adventure rating (snork!).

 

[boulderjohn]

Yes I agree go for Master Scuba Diver rather than AOL, but I think Rescue is the best class a diver can take and you must have at least Adventure Diver rating for Rescue.

You need to have both AOW and Rescue to get the master Scuba Diver rating.

 

[pconsidine]

You need to have both AOW and Rescue to get the master Scuba Diver rating.

Sorry- boulderjohn you are correct, I just checked Instructor Manual since have not yet sign off any Master Scuba Divers.

 

[MichaelMc]

@CPrincess, as most here will tell you, it is not the cards but the diver, and the instructor not the agency. The only reason you need AOW is for the boats, and really they want the deep part of it. SSI and SDI do it a bit differently. In particular SSI advanced is 4 full specialties, two of which can be non-SSI. (my.DiveSSI.com page 67). But a boat would want to see deep among them. There are other agencies as well. Rescue is a great class all should take. If you look at peoples' profiles there is usually a hodgepodge of agencies in their training history.

Edit: It also sounds as if from OW you could do all the Padi specialties of AOW except the deep prior, and then do Padi AOW as likely just the deep dive. Schedule wise that should not be harder than another specialty.

 

[CPrincess]

@MichaelMc I get what you're saying it's just a little confusing to get my head wrapped around why a business would set things up like that - and maybe hope they are considering a change if they read this! If Padi says I got a certification on a certain specialty, then why make another instructor sign to certifiy that they approve of my choice in instructor/instruction before I get to be considered Adventure Diver to be allowed to take Deep? Seems like double dipping for fees.....
I have gotten to see a variety of learning and teaching styles, and a variety of schools and how their "classrooms" work. It would be nice to have 1 single great shop I could consider my local instructor but that was out of my control. I think for the most part I have gotten a lot out of the training and partly because of the differences. Some instructors were great and some were only good - but how do you know you have a bad one if you have nothing to compare it too?
I might check into SSI to take some specialties over winter. There are more of them in my area and they are closer than the closest Padi (still a hike tho). As long as we are having fun doing the different classes it doesn't matter to me where we go, but it would be nice to get recognition for whatever higher ratings we have met the qualifications for!

 

[boulderjohn]

@MichaelMc I get what you're saying it's just a little confusing to get my head wrapped around why a business would set things up like that - and maybe hope they are considering a change if they read this! If Padi says I got a certification on a certain specialty, then why make another instructor sign to certifiy that they approve of my choice in instructor/instruction before I get to be considered Adventure Diver to be allowed to take Deep? Seems like double dipping for fees.....

I am trying to come to grips with what you are saying here, and I am afraid I don't understand it.

If an instructor signs you off for any class and you get certified for it, it's done. You get credit for it. If the course is a prerequisite for another course, it counts. I don't understand your concern.

What seems to be the confusion here is people are wondering about going through the the system backwards. It would be like asking if you can get credit for 1st grade if you can show you completed 6th grade. If you are wondering why they don't have the system set up to do that, it is most likely because it never occurred to them that someone would want to do it that way.

 

[CPrincess]

@boulderjohn What I am reading is that I cannot complete the requirements via Padi specialties that I earned from various shops without ultimately having an instructor to sign off (see post #5) on a final application and as was said in that post, money is one motivation.
Look at it from my point of view: It seems like I need to pay an instructor to look at my pile of plastic cards to verify I completed the requirements and sign a paper to Padi saying I have a pile of plastic issued by Padi when I think Padi should be able to look in their own records an verify that themselves!
From what everyone is saying the actual specialty earned is more than what you would need for your "sample" dive for the Adventure dive rating at least. Why would Padi need more than their own records that I completed the specialties - unless there is more qualifications to complete that no one has mentioned yet?
To use your analogy, if I went to a different qualified school each year and kept the records saying I completed each year in order and passed all requirements, but at the end on my 12th year the system said "yes, we can see all your records match our records and we all agree that you have met the qualifications to graduate high school. However, now we want you to pay for one more teacher to sign an application that this is true".

 

[boulderjohn]

@boulderjohn What I am reading is that I cannot complete the requirements via Padi specialties that I earned from various shops without ultimately having an instructor to sign off (see post #5) on a final application and as was said in that post, money is one motivation.
Look at it from my point of view: It seems like I need to pay an instructor to look at my pile of plastic cards to verify I completed the requirements and sign a paper to Padi saying I have a pile of plastic issued by Padi when I think Padi should be able to look in their own records an verify that themselves!
From what everyone is saying the actual specialty earned is more than what you would need for your "sample" dive for the Adventure dive rating at least. Why would Padi need more than their own records that I completed the specialties - unless there is more qualifications to complete that no one has mentioned yet?
To use your analogy, if I went to a different qualified school each year and kept the records saying I completed each year in order and passed all requirements, but at the end on my 12th year the system said "yes, we can see all your records match our records and we all agree that you have met the qualifications to graduate high school. However, now we want you to pay for one more teacher to sign an application that this is true".

OK, I understand now. I am sure the reason it is not set up to be done that way automatically is that, as I said previously, it is doing the system backwards. I am pretty sure it has never been done in the history of the agency. AOW is supposed to be an introduction to those diving areas so you can decide to get the full specialties later if you are interested. That is why they don't have an automatic system for when you do the full specialties before the introduction.

If you somehow did get all 5 of the specialties without getting the AOW, you would be in the same boat as someone who had five specialties and all the other requirements for Master Scuba Diver--the only thing left to do would be to get the card. If you were to come to me with 5 specialties and no AOW, I would shake my head in wonder, and then I would send in your certification information. I would charge you the cost of the card. I would think any instructor would do the same for you--including whoever did the 5th specialty, which is when it would likely be done.

 

[MichaelMc]

@CPrincess, It sounds like to do AOW with Padi, assuming you've done Nav with them, all you need to do is take the AOW with 4 specialties already accounted for. So just the one Deep dive. There might be a bit of 'we'd like you to learn everything from us' in any system. But the best is to write or call Padi and say I've done 3 specialties and Nav, would my AOW class require doing only the Deep.

Edit: It might help to understand what specialties you and kids did with what agencies.

 

[rsingler]

Wow! A lot of discussion here for an issue that only needs consultation of the relevant Instructor Manuals, I believe.
Yes, call PADI 1-800-729-7234 for the definitive answer. Work thru the cascade of choices to reach either Customer Service, Option #3, or Training, Option #4.

As an Instructor, this is easy. Yeah, some of it is for the money, but given what you would have done, that's going to be small. Really, it's a service for a potential customer.

Okay, here we go re: the RULES:
AOW Course Standards: "For Advanced Open Water Diver, student divers meet performance requirements: 1) Complete five Adventure Dives including Deep and U/W Nav; 2) Complete the five Knowledge Reviews for the completed Adventure Dives."

PADI General Course standards: "The first dives of PADI Specialty Diver courses...qualify as Adventure Dives."

PADI Deep Diver Specialty Prerequisite: "1. Certified as a PADI Adventure Diver or..."; 2. At least 15 years old.

PADI Adventure Diver Requirements: Be an OW diver and complete three Adventure Dives plus Knowledge Reviews

So everyone has been correct about the recommended order of training. But how you do things is completely up to you!
If you were my student, already certified as an OW diver, and you wanted to work it this way, I'd give you the certification for the cost of the card, and no extra charge.

But to get there, you'd have to complete the Deep Diver Specialty 1st dive. And to get THERE, you'd have to have completed the first (Adventure) dive of three OTHER specialties (and paid for the Adventure Diver certification) before you could enroll in the Deep Diver Specialty course.

As everyone else is suggesting, you would be able to do most of what you wanted to do by enrolling as an Advanced Open Water Diver, and just taking the first (Adventure) dive of each of the specialties that you were interested in. Being enrolled as an AOW student allows you to make the one Deep dive that is required, without getting the Specialty and without paying for Adventure Diver certification. The only fly in the ointment is that you only have a year to complete all five dives. If that's the problem, given your difficult access to a dive center, then I can understand your wanting to maybe obtain 5 individual specialties a little at a time, until you've met all the requirements for AOW.

The Catch-22 is Deep Diver Specialty. That's why everyone is jumping on you about "doing it backwards." It's not backwards, it's (in the end) just more costly (the price of the extra Adventure Certification AND the cost of five Specialties), but if that's what you have to do to get more than a year to get it done, then that's the way it might have to be.

In practice, however, you can often get the five dives of AOW done in a weekend, after completing all the Knowledge Development stuff. But you're right, you'd be a better diver as a Specialist in each of those areas. My recommendation: enroll as an AOW student and get that done. It's a great course. Then continue your training with the Deep Specialty by just getting a second dive. I don't really see a need to be a Specialist in all five areas. Maybe Peak Performance Buoyancy; maybe U/W Nav or Search and Rescue; maybe U/W photography if that's your interest, but all those specialties can come over the years.

I hope this helps, and doesn't just muddy the water.
Cheers!