This thread seems to have become a bit of argument, that was not my intention. I am fully familiar with PADI AOW and have already done (on a no fee uncertified basis) some of the AOW exercises. What I wanted to know is what the SSI deep diver course actually consists of and how interesting it is to do compared to PADI AOW. The SSI 40m depth is very attractive to me. I missed out on a 35m drift dive this week because of my present 18m limit and there are several wrecks I hope to do which are over 30m. Having said that if people have had a bad experience of the SSI deep diver course I may do PADI AOW followed by PADI deep dive.
PADI AOW vs SSI deep diver qualifications
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I have some differing information on PADI. Most of it says that you have to do AOW before you do deep but a qualifications flowchart suggests you can do PADI deep straight after OW. Anyone know which is right?
The dive center email says I can do SSI deep without an in between qualification from PADI OW in 4 dives. There may be reasons outside SSI guidelines for the center offering it as a 4 dive package.
The dive center email says I can do SSI deep without an in between qualification from PADI OW in 4 dives. There may be reasons outside SSI guidelines for the center offering it as a 4 dive package.
Per the PADI standards book I just got - Deep diver pre req is adventure diver, so you have to do adventure diver first - you can't just do deep
SSI Deep diver pre req is just open water and here's some high points as I can't screen shot every page from my online training thing:
1) Talks about different depths of diving and why they suggest limits
2) SAC rates, how depth effects air consumption, dive planning
3) A touch on altitude diving
4) Dive planning / buddy check
5) Descent procedures, touch navigation lost buddy etc
6) Ascent procedures
7) Potential hazards, reg freezing, hypothermia, narcosis, hypercapnia
8) DCS signs symptoms
9) Accident management
10) Repetitive dives
My main cert is thru SSI and I've done 6-8 specialties. It seems that every time I finish one, I think that was a lot of BS just to learn a few tid bits BUT, while they don't go into super depth, they do go deeper about certain things. Remember, a guy with 5 dives could be taking this class. The introduce new stuff, more detail on other stuff and reinforce the basics - they virtually do this in all the specialty training.
SSI Deep definetly teaches you stuff you should learn, maybe you know it already but if you only have 24 dives or less, odds are there is some good info in there for you.
Here's something to think about though - where are you headed? Do you want an AOW certification? Honestly, in my experience, they have asked what my level is, when the last time I dove but most importantly - they make a judgement of you underwater or until they know you. It seems that judgement far outweighs any card you carry period. If you want to dive tomorrow, don't dive over your head today.
If PADI AOW is your future for more training - stick with PADI as I don't believe SSI Deep will count for you
If SSI AOW is your future - by all means take the class, you'll learn something and it'll count
If just good old fun diving with your OW card is your future (i think there are a large percent of divers that fall in this category) - take the SSI class
Have fun, dive safe!
You are exactly correct. The PADI Deep specialty does have a higher set of prerequisites than does the SSI course, namely PADI AOW or PADI Adventure Diver. or equivalents. The actual wording in the PADI Instructor Manual is:
1. Certified as a PADI Adventure Diver or Advanced Open Water Diver or have a qualifying certifi cation from another training organization. In this case, a qualifying certification is defined as proof of certification beyond entry level (at least two certifications total) with proof of 20 or more logged dives documenting experience in deep diving and underwater navigation. Verify student diver prerequisite skills and provide remediation as necessary.
PADI doesn't want the Deep specialty to be the first thing you do after Open Water!
MichaelMc
Working toward Cenotes
AOW and some extra dives before going to the full deep class would be a good thing. Particularly some training on good basics: Buoyancy, trim, propulsion.
I was reading this old thread about Padi Deep vs Tec-40. If you ignore some bickering about Helium and some other topics, it has good points about learning fundamentals before tackling deep or tec. And it has a nice link describing Padi deep and tec-40 classes at that time. I'm not emphasizing the deep nor the decompression part of that discussion, but rather the solid diving skills part.
What can I learn from PADI Tec 40 course?
Quoting your sig line:
"There are old divers and there are bold divers but there are no old bold divers."
I was reading this old thread about Padi Deep vs Tec-40. If you ignore some bickering about Helium and some other topics, it has good points about learning fundamentals before tackling deep or tec. And it has a nice link describing Padi deep and tec-40 classes at that time. I'm not emphasizing the deep nor the decompression part of that discussion, but rather the solid diving skills part.
What can I learn from PADI Tec 40 course?
Quoting your sig line:
"There are old divers and there are bold divers but there are no old bold divers."
As mentioned, they are very different courses. A deep specialty (whether SSI or PADI) will concentrate on just teaching you things about diving safely at increased depths (planning, gas management, etc etc). Going deeper necessitates that your fundamentals be a bit more "automatic" to maintain proper buoyancy when compared to diving at shallower depths.
In contrast, PADI AOW course will provide a more well-rounded (IMO) expansion of your diving skills and knowledge from what you gained in your initial certification. In addition to that general diving knowledge you should gain in the course, you'll also be exposed to 5 specialty dives (two of which are required as mentioned already, the other three are determined between yourself and your instructor). I personally think it is more beneficial as a diver to do the AOW course and that's why I went that route myself.
Dive Shops (especially if you're a new customer), for guided dives, will take you to pretty standard limits: 18mt. OW, 30 mt. AOW, 40 mt. AOW+deep.
That's not because there's a law that forces them to do so: if you are a divers with 1000 dives but with only OW certification (and I know plenty of old school divers like this) and they know you, they wouldn't certain limit you to 18 meters; but because in case of an incident, even if the incident isn't directly caused by the depth, they will be automatically investigated, and having an additional paper that can certify that you have taken all the precautions and safety measure, will help a lot in a court.
There's no "scuba law", all the certifications and specialty are used to protect yourself, not to prove that the diver has the required skill. Paradoxically for the shop, legally, it's "better" to guide a certified deep diver with only 40 dives to 40 meters, than a OW with 10,000 dives on the book. Instead, practical, it's the diver only that should care about his own safety and not exceeding his capabilities, independently of his certification.
That's not because there's a law that forces them to do so: if you are a divers with 1000 dives but with only OW certification (and I know plenty of old school divers like this) and they know you, they wouldn't certain limit you to 18 meters; but because in case of an incident, even if the incident isn't directly caused by the depth, they will be automatically investigated, and having an additional paper that can certify that you have taken all the precautions and safety measure, will help a lot in a court.
There's no "scuba law", all the certifications and specialty are used to protect yourself, not to prove that the diver has the required skill. Paradoxically for the shop, legally, it's "better" to guide a certified deep diver with only 40 dives to 40 meters, than a OW with 10,000 dives on the book. Instead, practical, it's the diver only that should care about his own safety and not exceeding his capabilities, independently of his certification.
I did the SSI specialties after OW as Stress and Rescue, Navigation, Nitrox I and II (it was two separate courses way back when), and then Deep. I had about 50 dives (and an NASDS AOW) before I started all this, I was re-certing from scratch with my son.
I probably wouldn't do Deep without at least 20 or so dives. You need to be pretty comfortable already, and as others have said, good buoyancy. If you get too heavy and aren't paying attention it's a loooong way down to 130' or so where the bottom may be, as opposed to in 20-40' where there's a bottom to help control those fast descents.
I recall that most of the coursework was gas planning, lots of SAC calculation and consumption at depth, along with a tighter emphasis on lots of planning and working together. My instructor was a GUE guy teaching SSI rec courses, which probably played into it.
I probably wouldn't do Deep without at least 20 or so dives. You need to be pretty comfortable already, and as others have said, good buoyancy. If you get too heavy and aren't paying attention it's a loooong way down to 130' or so where the bottom may be, as opposed to in 20-40' where there's a bottom to help control those fast descents.
I recall that most of the coursework was gas planning, lots of SAC calculation and consumption at depth, along with a tighter emphasis on lots of planning and working together. My instructor was a GUE guy teaching SSI rec courses, which probably played into it.
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