PADI certification question

[UFOrb]

I'm no PADI Pro, but it is my understanding that AOW only certifies you to 100' and that you need the full Deep specialty to be certified to 130'.

If AOW certifies you to 130', then what is the point of the full Deep specialty?

Hi @stuartv its my understanding that the Deep speciality course, along with navigation, is a pre-requisite for AOW. Then you pick 3 other speciality courses. It may have changed recently, or I misunderstood.
My wife & I did deep and wreck adventure dives straight after our OW cert in Malaysia. Then 9 months later in Dahab, Egypt we completed navigation, drift & night dive specialities to gain our AOW certs. You can do this as long as you don't leave more than 12 months from the original adventure dives.
*The Bells/Blue Hole was a very loose definition of a drift dive though!
Cheers, Rob

 

[stuartv]

Hi @stuartv its my understanding that the Deep speciality course, along with navigation, is a pre-requisite for AOW. Then you pick 3 other speciality courses. It may have changed recently, or I misunderstood.

I'm pretty confident in saying that that is incorrect. The only prerequisite for AOW is having OW.

AOW requires that 2 of your 5 dives are from the Deep and Nav specialties. But, you are just doing the first dive from each of those full specialty courses. You get to pick (or your instructor picks for you) the other 3 dives - which are, again, just the first dive from each of 3 other specialty courses.

In other words, the full Deep Specialty course requires multiple dives. If you do an AOW course, you will just do the first dive from the Deep specialty. Thus why AOW only certifies you to 100', but the full Deep specialty certifies you to 130'.

That is why some people refer to AOW as a "sampler platter". You don't get the full education on anything. You just get the first dive from each of 5 different courses.

 

[Miyaru]

Hi @stuartv its my understanding that the Deep speciality course, along with navigation, is a pre-requisite for AOW. Then you pick 3 other speciality courses. It may have changed recently, or I misunderstood.
My wife & I did deep and wreck adventure dives straight after our OW cert in Malaysia. Then 9 months later in Dahab, Egypt we completed navigation, drift & night dive specialities to gain our AOW certs. You can do this as long as you don't leave more than 12 months from the original adventure dives.
*The Bells/Blue Hole was a very loose definition of a drift dive though!
Cheers, Rob

Almost correct. AOW consists of 5 adventure dives. Deep & navigation are always included, plus 3 other adventure dives of your choice.

The adventure Deep dive from AOW is the same as the first dive from the Deep specialty course: a dive to a depth of 24 - 30 meters / 80 - 100 feet deep.

 

[UFOrb]

I'm pretty confident in saying that that is incorrect. The only prerequisite for AOW is having OW.

AOW requires that 2 of your 5 dives are from the Deep and Nav specialties. But, you are just doing the first dive from each of those full specialty courses. You get to pick (or your instructor picks for you) the other 3 dives you - which are, again, just the first dive from each of 3 other specialty courses.

In other words, the full Deep Specialty course requires multiple dives. If you do an AOW course, you will just do the first dive from the Deep specialty. Thus why AOW only certifies you to 100', but the full Deep specialty certifies you to 130'.

That is why some people refer to AOW as a "sampler platter". You don't get the full education on anything. You just get the first dive from each of 5 different courses.

Ah ok, I did misunderstand that then. I don't go (much) beyond 30m/100ft when I dive anyway. The only additional course I've done since AOW is the SDI Nitrox course. I plan on doing rescue diver within the next year or so.

 

[UFOrb]

Almost correct. AOW consists of 5 adventure dives. Deep & navigation are always included, plus 3 other adventure dives of your choice.

The adventure Deep dive from AOW is the same as the first dive from the Deep specialty course: a dive to a depth of 24 - 30 meters / 80 - 100 feet deep.

Thanks, I was confusing Adventure dives & Speciality Courses...

 

[Bob DBF]

In other words, the full Deep Specialty course requires multiple dives. If you do an AOW course, you will just do the first dive from the Deep specialty. Thus why AOW only certifies you to 100', but the full Deep specialty certifies you to 130'.

The 60' and 100' are PADI (and others) recommended limits, and PADI limits for training. Some operators will enforce those recommendations as limits, others don't. 130' is the accepted limit for recreational SCUBA, which is NDL. An OW card, unless marked with a depth limit, is good for recreational scuba diving.


Bob

 

[boulderjohn]

Thanks for the response. I know for sure that we got certified. Have a temporary card now till the official one arrives in the mail. We did the first 3 chapters of the advanced open water manual and sat a test. That qualified us to dive up to 40ft. Just wanted to do the next step that would qualify us to go to 60ft.

It sounds like the scuba diver certification, except for the statement about the first three chapters of the advanced open water manual. That would have to have been the regular open water manual, not the advanced. (I am not trying to pick on your wording--just trying to make sure we understand what you did.)

The real difference between the scuba diving certification and the OW certification is not the depth--it is the fact that you cannot dive without supervision with the scuba diving certificate.

Here are the instructions PADI instructors are given for upgrading a scuba diver to the ow certification:

Upgrade to Open Water Diver
Use the following procedures to upgrade PADI Scuba
Divers at any time to Open Water Divers:
1. Retain a photocopy of the diver’s certification card.
2. Have the diver complete a Liability Release and
Assumption of Risk Agreement, Standard Safe Diving
Practices Statement of Understanding and PADI
Medical Statement.
3. Preassess the diver’s knowledge and skills, and
remediate as necessary.
4. Have the diver complete either a 200 metre/yard
continuous surface swim or 300 metre/yard swim with
mask, snorkel and fi ns.
5. Have the diver complete the balance of the Open Water
Diver course:
a. Knowledge Development 4-5 including Quiz 4 and
the Final Exam.
b. Confined Water Dives 4-5, and all remaining Dive
Flexible Skills.
c. Open Water Dives 3-4, and all remaining Dive
Flexible Skills.​

 

[boulderjohn]

That is why some people refer to AOW as a "sampler platter". You don't get the full education on anything. You just get the first dive from each of 5 different courses.

AOW was created by the Los Angeles County dive instruction program in the mid 1960s as an attempt to do something about the fact that so many divers were getting their OW certification, doing a few dives, and then quitting. The theory was that by introducing divers to a few new skills and giving them a brief experience with different kinds of diving, it might pique their interest in one of those activities and keep them diving.

 

[boulderjohn]

The 60' and 100' are PADI (and others) recommended limits, and PADI limits for training. Some operators will enforce those recommendations as limits, others don't. 130' is the accepted limit for recreational SCUBA, which is NDL. An OW card, unless marked with a depth limit, is good for recreational scuba diving.

That is absolutely correct and well stated.

I just want to add that no agency has the authority to limit what you do when you are out diving on your own. Agencies can limit what is done in training, and they can recommend what you do when you dive outside of training. It is the dive operations that can limit what they people doing under their supervision who do have that power, and some will impose limits such as those. Some of those agencies will lie and tell you they have no choice but to impose those limits because they are "PADI rules." I have experienced that, and when I called the dive leader on it, he admitted it was a company policy. They just want the divers to be mad at the agency for the limitations, not the company.

 

[stuartv]

The 60' and 100' are PADI (and others) recommended limits, and PADI limits for training. Some operators will enforce those recommendations as limits, others don't. 130' is the accepted limit for recreational SCUBA, which is NDL. An OW card, unless marked with a depth limit, is good for recreational scuba diving.


Bob

That's what I thought, too. And I still believe you are correct. But, I was doing classroom training for my Divemaster cert a little over a month ago. I asked this question in the class and the shop owner (who is an instructor for PADI, SDI, and SSI, at least) said that as a DM I should treat OW as a certified limit of 60', and AOW as 100'. In other words, if I am working as a DM on a dive excursion, I should not allow anyone to go on a dive that is beyond their certified limits, where I take those numbers as the certification limits.

So, in theory, I am not supposed to let anyone come on a dive that is planned for deeper than 100' unless they have at least the full Deep Specialty. I asked "what about the crusty old diver who's been way past 100' a thousand times, but they only have an OW card?" I was told that it does not matter - i.e. it doesn't matter to the insurance company or the court. Pointing to experience is no protection against a claim that I let someone dive beyond their certified limits.

So, for the OP, the point is that an OW card may certify you to do any recreational sport diving (i.e. to 130') you wish, but if you're diving with a guide or charter operation, they may not see it the same way.