Padi Fees

[MargaritaMike]

There can be no doubt whatsoever that even for a certification agency they need to be financially healthy in order to survive and continue to offer the services they do. PADI is a business and as such they cannot avoid the reality of needing a business model in order to remain financially healthy. Part of that business model has to do with limiting membership to people who pay to be a member.

PADI is not the only business that does this. Subscription fees are paid for everything from professional associations for doctors and professional engineers (to name only two of many), to members who pay a BAR in order to practice law and so on and so on. This is a VERY common model among professional associations. PADI is not unique in this in the very least.

What PADI offers to members is not insignificant. As a DM you might not have profited much from it but as an instructor I have relatively often consulted PADI about my approach to teaching. Particularly when I was a new instructor and trying to develop more efficient techniques for teaching I had fairly frequent contact with them. That particular service is very responsive and the expertise they have is quite good. That's one example of several services PADI offers to members. So yes, you pay to be a member but it's not just pissing money into a black hole so someone at PADI can lay back and get rich while sleeping, which is what you seem to be suggesting. They actually have a quality vision in mind and support their members with useful services.

That's why you were paying membership fees. Does that mean that everything is perfect? No. Obviously not. All positive change comes from people who are critical of the status quo. There is, however, a line between being critical and being cynical and I think you crossed that line in your post. Cynical people do not cause positive change. Critical people do.

Obviously it won't be "worth it" for everyone to pay membership fees. If you're not working as a pro it's clearly not "worth it" to keep paying. That doesn't mean that PADI is out to squeeze its members, it just means that for you as one individual member, you weren't working enough to make it worth your while. That's fine.

Does this help put it in perspective a bit?

R..

So, are you saying that if I start paying my annual membership fee and pay insurance that I am eligible to get a job as a working DM?

 

[Diver0001]

So, are you saying that if I start paying my annual membership fee and pay insurance that I am eligible to get a job as a working DM?

Of course not... I'm saying that if you pay your membership fees then PADI will not object if you get a job.... You still need to look for that job... PADI isn't going to look for it for you.

R..

 

[Bubblesong]

Does PADI DM card renewal involve doing background checks for criminal activity, or reviewing if there have been complaints about a Divemaster not just where they are now, but anywhere else in the world? It does seem more like a driver's license than a simple bank card or credit card.

 

[boulderjohn]

Does PADI DM card renewal involve doing background checks for criminal activity, or reviewing if there have been complaints about a Divemaster not just where they are now, but anywhere else in the world? It does seem more like a driver's license than a simple bank card or credit card.

If there have been complaints to PADI about an DM or instructor, then PADI does an investigation and acts accordingly. Their website lists those actions. Every quarter they list professionals who have received some sort of corrective action, up to and including permanent expulsion.

A standard background check should be something every employer does when hiring a DM or instructor.

 

[Bubblesong]

A standard background check should be something every employer does when hiring a DM or instructor.

I don't know if PADI can risk their brand by NOT doing criminal record checks and Cori background checks given the bad press if one of their DM's got caught with their hand on somebody else's cookies.

 

[Edward3c]

I don't know if PADI can risk their brand by NOT doing criminal record checks and Cori background checks given the bad press if one of their DM's got caught with their hand on somebody else's cookies.

I'd be very surprised if PADI undertook these checks. But something any dive centre should do, as the employing entity.

 

[MargaritaMike]

Of course not... I'm saying that if you pay your membership fees then PADI will not object if you get a job.... You still need to look for that job... PADI isn't going to look for it for you.

R..

I get that. I wouldn't expect PADI to look for a job for me. My point is that by just paying my membership fee, PADI will list me as a "current" DM regardless od my skill set. There is no "requalification" required. Obviously, the hiring dive operation should validate my skill set before hiring me.
But what about the marginal DM who has not been diving as a DM and the dive operation hurting for a DM? While it's incumbent on the DO to get the right personnel, a person who just pays his dues could put some lives in danger.
How about that perspective?

Cheers - MM

 

[boulderjohn]

I get that. I wouldn't expect PADI to look for a job for me. My point is that by just paying my membership fee, PADI will list me as a "current" DM regardless od my skill set. There is no "requalification" required. Obviously, the hiring dive operation should validate my skill set before hiring me.
But what about the marginal DM who has not been diving as a DM and the dive operation hurting for a DM? While it's incumbent on the DO to get the right personnel, a person who just pays his dues could put some lives in danger.
How about that perspective?

If you go without renewing for a while, then they do require that you pass some tests to demonstrate your skills, but otherwise, yes, they do just keep saying you are current. The primary reason, frankly, is to make sure your insurance is up to date. A few years ago, a DM continued to work in San Diego without renewing, and the shop knew it. When the DM's very poor actions in a dive situation resulted in a diver's death, the lack of insurance prior to the coming lawsuit, which both he and the shop were certain to lose, was a big problem. The DM committed suicide, and the shop went out of business. It is good to avoid such situations.

The same situation exists in most other similar professions. I received my teacher training while getting my college degree. At no time after getting that degree has my college checked up on me to make sure I maintained my skills. That was the job primarily of my employer. Oh, I had to do some work to recertify, but my NY State teaching certificate was lifetime and is still good today. It was up to the school district employing me to observe me, evaluate my performance, and determine that I was good enough to teach their students. How often do doctors and lawyers have to demonstrate that their skills are up to par in order to maintain their licenses?

Many instructors barely make enough money in their work to call it a living, and many drop out for that reason. I had many years where my tax returns showed a loss from my instruction. Can you imagine what it would cost for PADI to recertify all their professionals every year? Who do you think would pay for that? Where would it happen?

 

[tursiops]

I get that. I wouldn't expect PADI to look for a job for me. My point is that by just paying my membership fee, PADI will list me as a "current" DM regardless od my skill set. There is no "requalification" required. Obviously, the hiring dive operation should validate my skill set before hiring me.
But what about the marginal DM who has not been diving as a DM and the dive operation hurting for a DM? While it's incumbent on the DO to get the right personnel, a person who just pays his dues could put some lives in danger.
How about that perspective?

Cheers - MM

I'm unclear on the point you are trying to make.
Yes, skills and knowledge are perishable.
If an OW card-holder walks into a dive shop and says I want to dive on your boat, they often ask, "When was your last dive?" It may have been 5-10-15 years since they've been in the water, or 2 weeks.
If a DM card-holder walks into a dive shop and says I want to DM for you, what do you think the next question will be? Paid-up and insured is NOT enough.

 

[boulderjohn]

If a DM card-holder walks into a dive shop and says I want to DM for you, what do you think the next question will be? Paid-up and insured is NOT enough.

For an example, see my story in post #228, in which a DM put a dive operation out of business with one poorly-performed action. (Of course, the dive shop was complicit in their own demise by hiring him.) This was on on-board DM--he was not even kitted up in scuba gear.