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padi getting involved

Discussion in 'Public Safety Divers/Search and Rescue' started by mirrocraft, Mar 26, 2007.

should padi get involved in public safety diver training

Poll closed Mar 30, 2007.
  1. yes

    10.4%
  2. no

    89.6%
  1. BladesRobinson

    BladesRobinson ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    642
    46
    28
    As one forum member pointed out, Public Safety Diving is NOT recreational diving, nor is it "technical diving," commercial diving or military diving.

    It IS what is IS ... PUBLIC SAFETY DIVING.

    I am uncertain why our group continues to get beaten around and "pigeon holed" into some agency's "specialty" program.

    What is fortunate is that the instructor in question IS affiliated with a public safety agency and has some experience in the industry. Unfortunately, we have all seen it before and the question has to be asked ... Does this experienced instructor have good experience or a lot of experience being lucky?

    In the past ten years, 50% of the Public Safety Diving fatalities have been in the "training mode." Half of those fatalities were under the direct supervision of well intentioned "recreational" instructors and the other half were supervised by PSD team members who were not certified instructors.

    Indianapolis Fire Department used a "recreational" instructor who had a lot of experience. Unfortunately the experience of this recreationally trained instructor was not good enough to prevent two tragedies spaced 22 months apart. Details at:

    http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200215.html
    and
    http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200038.html

    Responsible instructors, training agencies and insurance carriers should consider the risks and liabilities associated with instructors teaching outside of their speciality group. As George Santayana stated, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." I only hope it is not at the expense of a brother Public Safety Diver's life.

    Safe diving,

    Blades Robinson
     
  2. Gary D.

    Gary D. ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Post Falls, Idaho
    4,367
    45
    0
    I’m sure I missed what you were referring to. All I could find was related to Diving Businesses which has nothing to do with PSD.

    PADI needs to stay out of the PSD world. We don’t need a recreational organization stepping in and trying to control PSD diving which is very contradictory to recreational diving.

    If they try this what’s next, commercial and military diving control? Watch out NASA PADI is watching. :shakehead

    Gary D.
     
  3. mirrocraft

    mirrocraft Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: homosassa fl 34446
    346
    4
    0
    wow i dont know what to say this is exactly what i was looking for and why i started this thread i want to thank you for this i am a diver with my local fire dep. and am watching this happen unfortenetly im the new guy and no one hears me i wanted to hear from you guys to see if my consures are correct i could not say it better thank you for taking the time to post
     
  4. BladesRobinson

    BladesRobinson ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    642
    46
    28
    :eyebrow:

    I have NO problem with a recreational scuba instructor teaching divers as Randy has described. The recreational training programs are great FOUNDATION for Public Safety Diving. I would only hope that they do their students the favor of introducing the proper Public Safety Diving line signals as shown at:

    http://www.iadrs.org/images/IADRSO~1.PDF

    The other thing to consider is that a responsible recreational instructor (like Randy) will encourage their students to continue to get good diver education.

    Thanks Randy for providing PSDs with good "foundational" training that they can build on!

    Blades Robinson



    Did anyone notice that the person who voted "yes" on the poll wasn't a PSD?
     
  5. mirrocraft

    mirrocraft Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: homosassa fl 34446
    346
    4
    0
    well all of our divers are already cert. some up to padi rescue i my self am a tech diver fixing to do the correct training with an instructor that is qualified
     
  6. Thalassamania

    Thalassamania Diving Polymath ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated
    22,171
    2,770
    113
    Then go to Randy or LifeGuard Systems. And be ready to drop a great deal of what you've learned without argument.
     
  7. mirrocraft

    mirrocraft Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: homosassa fl 34446
    346
    4
    0
    we have a dive center in evansville ind.. aquatech he offers the swift water and suck larry babcock i beleive i have the name correct once i finish my other class with im im moving on to the other classes im trying to see if i can get the fire dep. to cover the fees for the training. as for the thread this is me just making shore im not in the wrong for being concerned about this instructor trying to do this padi specaily. we where at a car recovery last night and the dive team we went as mutural aid and they got telling me about this they are just waiting on him to get his aprovel from padi and they are going to start classes with him
     
  8. ScubaRandy

    ScubaRandy IDC Staff Instructor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: White House, TN
    147
    1
    0
    No problem whatsoever Blades.... I recognize that PSD is not recreational diving, but rather a technical diving specialty.

    In the "foundational" training ( I like that... can I use that?), we give them the basic skills, and we take them to dive in the same lakes and creeks that they are most likely to be called out for so that they will be somewhat familiar with the conditions that they will be diving in... We give them Search and Recovery, Night diving, Underwater Navigation, and dry suit training from OW all the way up thru Rescue.

    Once the "foundational" training is over, they then contact the appropriate agencies for specialized training. And yes, I encourage all of them to stay active in diving...

    Also, thanks for the rope signals PDF.... I remember them from my volunteer fireman training classes, but this will be nice to give out as well...

    My gear is off to each and every one of you professionals for what you do. If any of you ever find yourselves down here in Nashville, TN, please contact me via a PM or drop me an email

    Randy
     
  9. Gary D.

    Gary D. ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Post Falls, Idaho
    4,367
    45
    0
    It doesn't sound like we are getting all the information on this.

    Is this a PSD course or more like an Introduction Too PSD course?

    Blades and I are on the same sheet of music on this and a lot of other topics. I agree with everything he posted above. I will feel much more at ease if this is just an intro course. I am totally against it being a PSD certification.

    Something everyone needs to remember and this has nothing to do with Randy. But a person can have all the credentials in the world and be the best at what they do and still not be a good instructor. In fact they may be a piss poor instructor.

    Gary D.
     
  10. Boater Dan

    Boater Dan Barracuda

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Western PA
    320
    2
    0
    It's pretty simple, I want someone who has or does walk in my shoes showing me the way. I do not want to be trained by someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, or just happened to scan over a PADI Instructors Manual.

    We were just granted funding to conduct formal PSD training (Blades I actually will be giving you a call soon) through one of the structured training agencies. While we have been a dive team since 1993, we do not have the formalized training. Many on the team were trained in our early days by an Ex-Navy Seal, who pushed us beyond the normal Open Water Training classes as he realized what we would be doing.

    We are looking forward to gaining the proper instruction.

    Dan
     

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