PADI open water max depth

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garyfotodiver:
Good. Tell that to the Senior PADI instructor who took her to 70fsw on her third check-out dive. The depths you quoted are recommendations only, not Federal or State Law. There is risk in everything we do. Our job is to analyze said risk and determine whether it is acceptable or not. If I choose to take my daughter to the Sea Emperor wreck off Boca Inlet once or twice a year, that is my decision. Give me credit for some intelligence and that I have considered the risk involved.

Gary - I don't think anyone was questioning your intelligence. You are free to take your daughter wherever you want (until authorities think you are guilty of "child endangerment"). I would just think about the possibility that the certification agencies and the people who conduct research may know more than me. If they say they don't know how the depth affects a growing person, I might take heed the warning and not take my son below that. Not saying you have to abide by their "recommended" depths for yourself (I have gone well below the recommended depth myself, been diving for 10 years, in all conditions), but why chance affecting your daughter's well being and future at this point? Stunting growth of important organs, or the affects of pressure on their brains, ears, joints, etc... There will be plenty of time for her to do the deep stuff when her growth slows or stops. Until a conclusive research is done on younger divers to give you the "proof" you need, I would also have to agree with Biscuit. My child's body and well-being are the most important thing to me, as I am sure yours is to you, so it isn't something I would mess with.

And this isn't a personal bash on you, just my opinion.
 
Insurance issues are a separate matter to safety issues (imo). I have about 150 dives now mostly in warm waters. Never in coz, Belize, Little or Grand Cayman, Roatan, Bonaire, Tortola, (etc.) has a reputable dive-op changed a dive profile, based on my ow card ( including the 135 ft "blue-hole" in Belize ). I have to agree with those who emphasize experience and common sense as opposed to a number on your guage to guide your dive selection. An unsafe dive has a lot more determinants than just depth.
 
garyfotodiver:
When I mentioned to the LDS owner, a PADI instructor, that I recently missed the chance to dive (for free!) on a wreck in 120fsw because I forgot my AOW card, she had a horrified look on her face as she informed me that AOW was not good enough to dive to 120fsw.

Both of my LDSs tend to behave like that. And they wonder why I do not buy much from them. I am PADI certified, and the shops are NAUI and SSI. But the agency has nothing to do with my feelings. It could be a PADI shop saying the same thing. I have heard the owners of both shops badmouthing other training orgs, which I find pointless as well.

The attitude of the shop owners matters to me. Are there safety considerations to going under 60 feet? YES. Does the shop also make money by "certifying" you to go under 60 feet and sell you stuff like "Spare Airs"? YES. Should everyone go deeper than 60 feet? NO. Is there anyone there to prevent you from doing a 180 foot dive with wreck penetration and decompression on an OW card? Not if you own the boat that gets you to the wreck. There is no one, other than the laws of physics and death, to prevent you from diving any profile if you put your mind to it.

Other than trying to maintain a safe reputation for the sport that is there business (which I totally understand), the shop owners and certifying orgs benifit financially from Nanny SCUBA diving. The industry makes more money if everyone hires a divemaster or instructor for every dive. Do I belittle those that dive like that? No. If they are happy, I do not care what they do. But, I get really tired of a 20 year old Dive Master crabbing at me to get 2 feet closer to my buddy. It is our vacation and our dive. The water is 80 degrees F and clear, we are in 20 feet of water 10 yards from the boat looking at a grouper cleaning station. Back off.

As for OW limit of 60 feet.... Then you are hosed if you do your OW cert and then go to Cozumel. I just checked my log book and out of 12 dives on my trip, 8 of them were deeper than 60 feet(84, 63, 47, 76, 67, 135, 90, 52, 82, 67, 103, 56). Some were not by much, but if you want to go by the book, you cannot go those extra 3 feet to the bottom of the reef to see the cool Green Moray if your C card "limits" you to 60 feet. You need you AOW card to go those 3 feet and see the eel hiding at 63 feet. That extra 1/11th of an ATM will get you! :)

Two of those Cozumel dives were over 100 feet (one was the Devil's Throat-135 feet, violating most rec dive limits), but they were planned that way and you do not have to go under 100 feet to enjoy Cozumel. Going under 60 feet helps.

I imagine a lot of this rant is a waste though. Everything these days is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. I am just saying that the agencies really cannot keep you from doing anything.
 
No bashing intended or perceived.

The next time some one takes his/her child to the pediatrician because of an illness, the MD may prescribe a medication (drug) for the child. Before you give the first dose to the child, do a little research on how many studies were done on a pediatric population in order to determine the correct doseages. It is better now than it used to be, but historically, there was very little, if any, studies done on populations other than Caucasian, middle class, generally healthy, ADULTS. The dose you give may very well be a guess.

I have spent almost 30 years in various facets of the pharmaceutical industry in the US, and have, I believe, a very good understanding of the concept of risk assessment.

And risk assessment is what we are all talking about, whether we understand it or not.
 
garyfotodiver:
And risk assessment is what we are all talking about, whether we understand it or not.


yeah.... safety is an acceptable level of risk (or something like that)

to me, as an OW student, the risk at 70 feet did not seem unnaceptable
compared to the risk at 60 feet.

and so on...
 
DivingCRNA:
As for OW limit of 60 feet.... Then you are hosed if you do your OW cert and then go to Cozumel. I just checked my log book and out of 12 dives on my trip, 8 of them were deeper than 60 feet(84, 63, 47, 76, 67, 135, 90, 52, 82, 67, 103, 56). Some were not by much, but if you want to go by the book, you cannot go those extra 3 feet to the bottom of the reef to see the cool Green Moray if your C card "limits" you to 60 feet. You need you AOW card to go those 3 feet and see the eel hiding at 63 feet. That extra 1/11th of an ATM will get you! :)

Hey, did you have your boat specialty and underwater naturalist specialty done? I sure hope you did not take any photos without that underwater photo specialty. Watch out for those SCUBA PO-lice.:D

I agree with you. It is training and experience.
 
skybird:
What alarms me with this discussion is the attitude of some, both here and others I have met. The attitude is , " I can do anything I want. There is no LAW only recommendations. If i want to risk my life or the life of my children, Then that is MY business." The problem with this attitude is that sure, maybe you have the right to risk your own life, but yuo DON"T have to right to risk other peoples lives. Not only talking about your own family, but those rescue divers who sometimes have died trying to save somone who was diving well beyond their limits, just because they wanted to. Do I ever do things beyond my "card"? Sure, an gradually increasing my skills. Training, knoweldge, experience and practice. AND caring about the saftey of myself and those around me. I should enjoy this sport for as long as I am young enough( like 80 or older) and physically able to dive.

SkyBird

There is a line between "can" and "should". Some folks shouldn't even get in the water, much less go deeper than 60 feet, without an agency approved hand holder. But they can and do.:banghead:
 
dsd 6 meters
ow 18 meters
aowd 30 meters
dive masters and in structor 40 meters all with padi
 
2 atmospheres sw OW
3 atmospheres sw AOW
4 atmospheres sw Deep

But as Walter made very clear its based on training experience, not a piece of paper or card. consider these training marks MAXIMUMS for setting experience. And of course the argument how do you dive something your not experienced at (IE for the first time) it's by getting instruction from someone who can give you that first experience, not a buddy egging you on.
 
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