padi self reliant diver

[Diver0001]

While I'd personally agree with you wrt a business, in general people want to feel that they are getting their money's worth when they pay for something. When its perceived that you are paying only for paperwork and the price is exorbitant, then its a money grab.

I'm not saying that that is what PADI is doing here because I'll not be taking this course to find out (for reasons mentioned before). But they do have that reputation, and reputations exist because enough people perceive it so.

Similarly, I tell my kids, the only thing you truly own and have influence over in life is your reputation. And you only get one shot at making it what you want. Don't screw it up.

Agreed. PADI does have a reputation of not delivering value for the money you pay.

But I would argue that this is a function of instructors more than the agency. Instructors are the ones in the trenches who turn standards (what is essentially a check-list of things to do) into a quality diving course. PADI *does* -- and I believe correctly -- give instructors a lot of latitude to delver the course in a way that makes sense to them. Some instructors turn that check list into an outstanding diving course. Others turn it into the most unimaginable crap. Both within standards.

Both horrible and outstanding courses still need to pay the same certification fee. If there is some feeling in your local area that PADI is not delivering value for money then I would not look to the agency. I would look to sloppy teaching by local instructors.

R..

 

[Wookie]

Sigh. PADI sells books, and certifies instructors. They have an insurance business. They have nothing to do with certifying divers, except they sell them manuals to guide them through the classes. They set standards for their particular style of instructor guidance. They scold instructors when needed, not enough in my opinion, but they don't train divers. If you didn't get your money's worth from PADI, It's because their books were lousy.

Let me be very clear. PADI teaches instructors, and sells books so those instructors can do their jobs. PADI does not teach students.

SDI/TDI, SSI, SEI, NASE, GUE, NAUI, PSAI, and the rest of the alphabet soup are in the same business, by the way.

 

[TMHeimer]

Wookie, I haven't yet DMd for an instructor (8 or so out of our 20) at our shop that wasn't very good. PADI certifies instructors, so for not getting one's money's worth only because the book is lousy that means the PADI reps. that certify instructors never make mistakes with that (probably an extreme rarity if they do). More likely than a PADI "mistake" would be the instructor just doesn't do a good job after he/she is certified. I'm splitting hairs of course, and this does happen with school teachers all the time.

 

[Redshift]

Agencies certify instructors but they have an obvious influence on the divers through not only the material they publish, but more importantly in the way they set up their standards, both for the instructors and the divers. And that has an effect on the value of a course.

 

[Wookie]

Agencies certify instructors but they have an obvious influence on the divers through not only the material they publish, but more importantly in the way they set up their standards, both for the instructors and the divers. And that has an effect on the value of a course.

And I maintain that the standards for the students are set by the RSTC (and whatever the council is in Finland for Finland) and WRSTC. The agency writes their manuals and trains instructors to teach in accordance with the minimum requirements set forth by the council. I am an instructor for more than one agency as far as recreational goes. There is no difference to the diver.

 

[String]

Not sure why someone would want to dive solo on a trip/excursion. Personally I'm not wired that way.

Not having to follow someone elses dive profile, not having to follow someone elses dive route or speed, not being limited by someone elses air consumption. Not having other divers bang into you or interfere with your dive. Being able to take photos by stopping for as long as you want, wherever you want.

Plenty of reasons. Quite often its a far more enjoyable dive as its "your" dive, 100% customisable to what you want to do and see without having to compromise.

---------- Post added April 8th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ----------

Just my 2 cents, the PADI Self-Reliant specialty is NOT a solo diving certification.

"The purpose of the Self-Reliant Diver specialty course is to recognize and accept the role of the buddy system and its contributions to diver safety while identifying and developing self-reliance and independence while diving". Extract from the instructor manual.

They call it independent diving not solo diving. Same thing.

Look at the liability release:-

Skin and scuba diving have inherent risks which may result in serious injury or death. I further acknowledge that choosing to dive without a dive buddy, as a “Self-Reliant” Diver has additional inherent risks and hazards.
Diving with compressed air involves certain inherent risks; including but not limited to decompression sickness, embolism or
other hyperbaric/air expansion injury can occur that require treatment in a recompression chamber. Open water diving trips
which are necessary for training and for certification may be conducted at a site that is remote, either by time or distance or
both, from such a recompression chamber. You are choosing to proceed with such instructional dives in spite of the possible
absence of a recompression chamber in proximity to the dive site. By choosing to dive alone, you will not have a buddy to
assist you should any of these or other issues occur. Skin and scuba diving are strenuous activities and you will be exerting
yourself during this diving programme. You must advise truthfully and fully inform the dive professionals and the facility
through which this programme is offered of your medical history.

..and from the DIVER level release:-

. I further acknowledge that choosing to dive without a buddy has additional inherent risks and hazards, including but not limited to, the absence of a buddy to assist me should I experience any problem while diving and the likelihood that others will not be able to affect a timely assist or rescue.

...

I further understand that by choosing to dive alone, I will not have a buddy to assist me should any of these or other issues occur.

 

[lowviz]

...//... They call it independent diving not solo diving. Same thing. ...//...

Not even close. The ultimate dive authority does not recognize anything other than a piece of plastic that explicitly states "SOLO" diver.

Solo Diving at Dutch Springs
To solo scuba dive at Dutch Springs you must have a current
Solo Diving certification card, show your card when registering,
fill out additional paperwork and rent a dive locator.

Solo Dive Locators
$16 per day
$365 refundable deposit
Only MasterCard, Visa or cash accepted for solo dive locator deposits.

 

[String]

What the hell is a "dive locator". Sounds like a truly comical place i wouldn't want to visit!

 

[lowviz]

"body finder"

-me neither...

 

[maniago]

What the hell is a "dive locator". Sounds like a truly comical place i wouldn't want to visit!

Rubbish. Dutch is a fantastic quarry - as good as any quarry can be. And its huge - it really ought to be called a lake (you could water ski on it easy) and reasonably deep ~90-120' I think depending on the water table.

People do die there - people die everywhere - so locating them in a timely fashion is a reasonable business practice. Its mid-PA and the fire dept and emergency services have a lot of countryside to cover and spending 4 days searching for a body in a confined water area (which does have a little current so things move around) is not reasonable. Its a business and this is good business. Did I mention that they also have a large water park, camping and above ground activities? Wonderful place.