PADI swim test

[idocsteve]

idoc sterve: If you ditch your gear your wetsuit will let you float.. Want more?

That depends on what more is.

 

[Diver0001]

Yeah but if she was treading water and you asked her where she was, could she tell you?

LOL

Well in her case yes..... if she could hear you asking...

R..

 

[Guy Alcala]

Not really, I have had 3 students wash out because they could not do either the 200 swim, or the 300 MFS. So not EVERYONE passes, btw, SDI, SSI...same standards.

Three out of how many? When I did my SSI OW there were two people in the class who struggled to complete the 200 yards (and looked terrified while doing it, dog paddling). IMO neither had any business taking scuba at their level of water competence, but they 'met the standard'.

Guy

 

[Diver0001]

Three out of how many? When I did my SSI OW there were two people in the class who struggled to complete the 200 yards (and looked terrified while doing it, dog paddling). IMO neither had any business taking scuba at their level of water competence, but they 'met the standard'.

Guy

How did they look on scuba?

R..

 

[idocsteve]

LOL

Well in her case yes..... if she could hear you asking...
R..

 

[Walter]

Hmmm... that is weird! Were you able to run before you learned to walk, also?

Sorry, that was an obvious lack of proof reading. I've edited my post to reflect what I meant to say, "Before I could swim, I could easily snorkel 300 yds."

If you ditch your gear your wetsuit will let you float.. Want more?

That takes care of 6 months. What about the other 6 months when I don't wear a wet suit?

 

[Guy Alcala]

I should have been more clear. Standards do not require the instructor to test these two things back-to-back.

I understand that your personal conviction is that you should but standards don't require it.


My grandmother who is about 90 years old still swims on a regular basis and could do the 200 metre swim test and 10 min float easily. When we were kids she used to swim across the lake where we camped to "kill time" in the afternoon (maybe 3km or so round trip). Not that she's highly fit or anything. Quite the contrary. She's always been obese (since I've known her) but she worked as a lifeguard when she was young and has pretty good swimming technique.

So what I'm saying here is that if you *really* want to test cardio fitness, then you probably have to take technique out of the equation. Maybe putting them on an elliptical trainer would be better.

No, I think you've established that she's well inside her limits: if she can do the 200m swim and 10 min. float 'easily', she can do more with effort. Her good technique means that she isn't going to waste a lot of energy, so even if she's obese she's got some reserves.

Another option is to teach people to listen to their bodies and dive within their limitations. That message gets repeated over and over again in the PADI open water course. PADI isn't interested in making diving inaccessible to people who aren't fit. They are, however, aware that this means that people have to be told to set the bar to match their abilities.

There's the problem: IMO PADI (and SSI and the other agencies) _should be_ interested in making diving inaccessible to people who aren't fit. Otherwise, why have C-cards at all? Let's carry the libertarian principle out to its end, and let anyone who wants to get their tanks filled, do so and dive at their own risk. I'm all for it, although I recognize the body count would go up.

So that's their answer to this issue. We could think of all kinds of arbitrary swimming skills that divers need to learn but we first have to ask ourselves what do divers need to be able to *DO*?

R..

For me, the primary answer to you question is that divers need to be able to survive unharmed, and not endanger their buddies or other people in the water with them. IMO Poor and non-swimmers are far more likely to fail in both categories.

Guy

 

[Web Monkey]

Sounds good to me - anyone who can meet those standards is competent and comfortable in the water, and in decent aerobic condition.
Guy

Actually, all it means is they can swim. Eventually swimming stops.

I'd rather the test was to go hangout in the middle of the pool for an hour and not drown. Don't care if the person swims, floats, treads or levitates, as long as an hour later they're still breathing.

Terry

 

[idocsteve]

I'd rather the test was to go hangout in the middle of the pool for an hour and not drown. Don't care if the person swims, floats, treads or levitates, as long as an hour later they're still breathing.

Terry

What if they sit on roturners grandma's shoulders?

 

[Diver0001]

There's the problem: IMO PADI (and SSI and the other agencies) _should be_ interested in making diving inaccessible to people who aren't fit.

Well that's really hitting the nail on the head right there. That's the real crux of the difference in philosophy between you (and you are certainly not alone) and PADI.

Personally I don't have a big issue with the swimming requirement but as I said before I seldom get students who can't swim.

What makes me much more nervous are people who are high-strung and/or prone to panic. I personally believe that these people should take up a sport where panic won't kill them.

Probably someone else has a problem with students who have trouble lifting 25kg with one arm

Yet another will have an issue with someone who is dyslexic

or anyone under the age of 15...

... and so on and so on.

Every instructor out there will have their own "red flag" issues that are really important to them. Yours is swimming and that's fine. The nice thing about the system is you wouldn't be required to train them. You're allowed to turn them away, like I might turn away someone who is prone to panic attacks.

The key thing for the student, however, is knowing that the agency defines the "bar" and not instructors. It's not like that with all agencies but with PADI it is. The agency has decided that *this* level of swimming competence is good enough.

For me, the primary answer to you question is that divers need to be able to survive unharmed, and not endanger their buddies or other people in the water with them. IMO Poor and non-swimmers are far more likely to fail in both categories.

Could you translate that into singular measureable "tasks" or "competencies"? Like, they should be able to ... < do what, exactly? > What does "survive unharmed" mean in terms of singular measureable tasks?

R..