PADI vs NAUI

[MXGratefulDiver]

When I signed up for scuba lessons I didn't even now there were such a thing as agencies. I got certified through the YMCA ... and when someone asked me if I was taking a class through PADI I thought they said "Patty" ... my response was "No, I'm taking a class through Loren" (my instructor's name).

My instructor explained about certification agencies the first night of class ... and it still didn't really mean anything ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cloudswinger]

I think he pretty much nailed it.

99% of people who start diving will not know ANYTHING about diving skills. I didn't know if my agency was any good. They told me CMAS was started by Jacques-Cousteau and I was like COOL. I WANT IT!.

My 1st in-pool trainer was a spartan task master. He had us for a whole semester so he had time to burn and made us do drill when we had covered a subject and there was spare time (college class). My OW cert instructors were pretty laid back and honestly kinda useless. So as in any organisation, the person who teaches the class makes the difference. Even if PADI makes it's requirements SOLID, it's always the subjective view of an instructor that determines if it's a pass or no.

As a shopper, you'll most likely compare prices and convenience, you SURELY won't look at a OW class' curriculum and buy corresponding to that. A more advanced diver, yes. A beginner, not really.

And seriously, between 350$ and 400$ there's not much of a price difference for anyone to really consider the 350$ except if it's more convenient.

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99$ scuba class + kit (99$)... see that would make me reconsider if I was a non-diver.

When I took my class, there was no mention of what agency was the certifying agency. We really only found out from the name on our log books, and no discussion was ever made about agency qualities or what not. It was really more about scientific methods and usages. It was a college class, so we had a full semester of weekly pool and classroom sessions. There wasn't any guarantee that if you passed the college class that you'd be certified and probably also vice versa since there could very well be instances of people doing well with the skills and not turn in the essay report. They taught the classroom knowledge level of Advanced OW, but you had to spend spring break diving for the skills to actually receive Advanced, otherwise you got OW.

I only found out about PADI once I started diving on my own. Not that it really made any difference.

Maybe for some people $50 is nothing, but that could buy me a tank of gas or some accessories. But most people don't know that diving can have serious consequences for the untrained until they take the classes, in which case they've already made a choice on cheap or expensive, good or bad.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yeah when I took OW there was no mention of PADI. The general public knows nothing about such things. At our first pool session our instructor said "this is my divemaster Alan". I figured the DM was WAY above an instructor and was there to observe (keep an eye on) the instructor. I guess pros just assume you know all this stuff.

 

[Walter]

There was a fluff between a good friend of mine and PADI... you can bet that I stood by my friend, and I would do that again today.

It was a bit more than a fluff, PADI filed a lawsuit and while I was never named in the suit, I was intimately involved. Pete was very supportive of me in a very trying time.

You don't teach them so they are... crap?

It's the old chicken or the egg question. Did you ever consider that some folks don't teach them because they disagree with the philosophy behind them? I think you are falling into a common mistake, one of which I've also been guilty in the past and which I now regret. You are assuming motivation. That is a mistake. It was a mistake when I did it. It was a mistake when you motivation was assumed earlier in this thread and it's a mistake when you do it as well.

Was this the instructor or the agency's fault?

If standards were violated, it was the instructor's fault. If standards were not violated, it was the agency's fault.

Personally, I don't see how getting them in the water on Scuba under any program can be sub-optimal.

Didn't you just refer to an experience one poster had as "a horrible experience?" Wouldn't you consider that program as sub-optimal?

 

[ScubaDoctorSteve]

Here in the Philippines, NAUI instructors require no mask breathing.

NAUI DM 49497

My local NAUI class had you do 'no mask breathing' but didn't give it a name. It was just part of a 'ditch and don' (everything off/everything on UW) excercise, as well as an emergency octopus drill UW. Basically, swim up behind your buddy, give the out of air signal, get the octopus from your buddy, remove mask and allow your buddy to aid you swimming to the surface about 50' away.

I'm still looking for a good explanation of the differences between NAUI/PADI. From my limited experience with both, I do have to draw a distinction between recreational and resort diving (or weekend diving vs vacation diving). My NAUI classes (taught by an engineer - god help me) were very thorough and had a very school-like feel to them. What I observed at the PADI-run resort certification class was very basic by comparison. The structure for 'advancement' seems more conservative on the NAUI side, as well as some of the recommendations (ascent rates, for example).

Is PADI more vacation-class oriented? Honestly, I'd heard of neither organization before preparing to go to Antigua for my honeymoon.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Rhenry]

The data does show a trend in incident rates and training. That is one reason why I am a proponent of standardized training with one overall certifying entity. With a set of standards that all must adhere to, and sufficiently high to reduce the risk of dive incidents, we would have a much safer and more likely higher participation activity then we have now.
Many say this is a hobby, or recreational pursuit, there may be a small group with this mind set. This does not negate the fact that we must minimize the risks and be a safe sport or recreational activity. The only real means to minimize risks is through training and a set of standards that must be followed.

 

[aquaregia]

I'm still looking for a good explanation of the differences between NAUI/PADI.

The important distinction to me is that NAUI requires rescues in OW, PADI does not.

 

[Thalassamania]

The data does show a trend in incident rates and training.

What data?

That is one reason why I am a proponent of standardized training with one overall certifying entity. With a set of standards that all must adhere to, and sufficiently high to reduce the risk of dive incidents, we would have a much safer and more likely higher participation activity then we have now.

There in lies the problem, the only people with sufficient experience and background to judge if standards are, "sufficiently high to reduce the risk of dive incidents," are not in the market for such training.

Many say this is a hobby, or recreational pursuit, there may be a small group with this mind set. This does not negate the fact that we must minimize the risks and be a safe sport or recreational activity. The only real means to minimize risks is through training and a set of standards that must be followed.

I would argue quite the opposite, I would argue that one minimizes risk by increasing the quality of the instructor cadre to the level that, ideally, written standards become irrelevant:

Expert: The instructor is capable of making correct decisions on an intuitive basis. He or she no longer needs to rely on rules, guidelines or maxims and posses an authoritative knowledge of the disciplines that make up diving and diving instruction and that lead to a deep tacit understanding of, as well as a holistic and intuitive grasp of diving and training situations. In complex circumstances, the instructor moves easily between intuitive and analytical approaches, using analytic approaches solely in completely novel situations or when problems occur. The instructor sees the overall 'picture' and simultaneously grasps alternative approaches. The instructor is comfortable taking responsibility for going beyond existing standards and creating original interpretations using a vision of what is possible. Excellence is achieved with relative ease.

 

[Rhenry]

" I would argue quite the opposite, I would argue that one minimizes risk by increasing the quality of the instructor cadre to the level that, ideally, written standards become irrelevant"

Thus far your theory has not transpired. The question I have is how do you propose to get this " quality instructor cadre" you endorse. The reason why one has standards is that you can produce results with quality instructors. You have a means to measure the "quality" of instruction and can train instructors to achieve that level. Your "laze fair" means of instruction produces results that cannot be replicated or measured, since you do not have a standard to measure results by.

 

[Thalassamania]

" I would argue quite the opposite, I would argue that one minimizes risk by increasing the quality of the instructor cadre to the level that, ideally, written standards become irrelevant"

Thus far your theory has not transpired. The question I have is how do you propose to get this " quality instructor cadre" you endorse. The reason why one has standards is that you can produce results with quality instructors. You have a means to measure the "quality" of instruction and can train instructors to achieve that level. Your "laze fair" means of instruction produces results that cannot be replicated or measured, since you do not have a standard to measure results by.

If the standard of measure is highly skilled divers with no fatal accidents and a DCS rate that is the best of any diving community by an order of magnitude, then ... in the scientific diving community we have established that and maintained that, without the detailed and oft onerous "standards" of recreational diving since 1952. I know that there are all sorts of "reasons," most of the economic, that that can not be done within the recreational diving world, that is why I used the word "ideal" (as in Platonic Ideal).

There is an old saw in the research diver training world that runs something like, "good training keep divers safe, good regulations look good."