PADI?

[Manatee Diver]

I used to be against all the PADI distinctive specialties, but the more I thought more I realized that it is smart. First people like to collect the cards, there are people with stacks of cards, all neatly in pages at the start of their logbook. Second this allows the instructors/shops to differentiate themselves. Want a Goliath Grouper distinctive specialty? Only one shop offers that and it is in Jupiter. Spring Diver specialty? Well go to the shop in Tampa that offers it. This allows the shop to really customize the experience, otherwise a SDI/SSI shop is another SDI/SSI shop.

Personally I am not a card collector, but this industry needs all the help it can get. If you don't want the cards, well don't get them.

 

[kelemvor]

You appear to be making some assumptions....
I wrote a distinctive specialty in Coral Identification. PADI had it reviewed by at least two people, and gave me some useful suggestions on how to improve it. They added value....not exactly a thumbs up or down approach.

I have no problem with those certs. Actually the zombie apocalypse class sounds like it would be fun. If someone wants to pay for a day in a zombie apocalypse class they will probably have a good time for their money. I was pointing out that these sort of classes do contribute to folks having negative opinions about PADI. Now if someone starts telling unsuspecting new divers that they NEED things like a boat diver certification then you've got a problem.

I do have an unpopular opinion that instructors are part of the agency, not completely separate as some would have people believe. Therefore if an instructor is doing something unsavory, the agency is. If the agency doesn't like what that instructor is doing then the agency should probably do something about it.

 

[Hartattack]

Doesn't PADI offer a specialty for answering this exact question?

$250.00 Please.

 

[tursiops]

You find a lot of PADI haters; some of that is group mentality....it is cool to pile on.
<snip>
It is always good to have someone to look down upon...makes the inadequate feel better.

$250.00 Please.

Another good example of piling on. No value added.

 

[Storker]

Every agency is concerned with profits

I beg to differ. Not all agencies are commercial.

 

[boulderjohn]

If I remember what I read in the book correctly, PADI sprung from the loins of NAUI more or less.

In its early years, NAUI was always in financial difficulty and fighting off bankruptcy. One year the organization decided to limit its focus to California to save money, and they canceled a major instructor training session scheduled for Chicago. The Chicago branch of NAUI was angered, and they formed a new agency--PADI. They decided that the new agency would use a financing system that did not rely on donations for funding.

All PADI does is make sure that "distinctive" specialty is neither technically incorrect nor dangerous,

That is critically important, as was explained to me by an attorney. If I decide to offer a training program on my own and there is an incident, when I am sued, it will be up to me to prove in court that my instructional decisions were sound. If instead my training program was reviewed by PADI and given the agency's approval, the burden would be on the plaintiff to prove the world's largest dive agency was wrong in giving it that approval. I teach a distinctive specialty called "Understanding Overhead Environments." Believe me, I had to go through a whole lot before that got approved.

print a card paid for by the diver who also pays PADI cut of the action, Yeah I get it. What P.T. Barnum said.

The only money PADI gets when a student takes a distinctive specialty class is the cost of a card. The card is not a requirement. If the student just takes the class for the sake of taking the class, PADI will not even know it happened.

 

[Hartattack]

As a PADI instructor, I have a few gripes, not aimed explicitly at PADI. Still, more at old school PADI shops who are unwilling to be innovative and focus on quantity over quality, For instance, students' ratio to one instructor in a course seems rather broad, IMHO. I mitigate this by only allowing four students in any of my classes.


#2, The value-added idea of up-selling a particular specialty: Sure, some specialties are needed, E.g., EAN (Nitrox), Emergency 02, Deep, etc. However, please don't tell me to upsell a Peak Performance Buoyancy Course for a later date—because the LDS AOW course only lasts two days. Moreover, the student never learned correct buoyancy techniques with their Open Water Course because they were on their knees most of the time with seven other students. They should have their buoyancy dialed in before the AOW course.


#3, PADI Shops who sell particular items and only want their instructors to wear those certain items—I am looking at you Aqua Lung "50-star" dealers or whatever it's called these days.


#4 Shops who are afraid of change, e.g., scared of teaching in a BP/W with long hose configuration but who will sell an AIR2 to their newly minted open water diver with crappy buoyancy who would probably panic if they have to take off their mask. 7ft and a known working regulator is a comfortable buffer between a panicked out of air diver and the instructor/diver donating the gas. If you have ever been a lifeguard—you know what it is like to interact with a person who is panicking in water.


These "gripes" have led me to go independent, and I like that PADI supports independent instructors. However, I am looking at and working towards a non-profit organization that favors quality instructors in a particular standardized gear configuration that I happen to agree with and also belive produce highly functional and educated divers. Not to say a PADI Instructor could not provide that same level of instruction—it just happens not to be the norm IMHO.


With all things, this is my 0.02 on the subject and others might feel differently.

 

[Belzelbub]

I wouldn't have an issue with getting a certification from any of the well known certification agencies. I have certs from 3 different agencies (PADI, YMCA, SSI), and could have had two more (NAUI & CMAS) as they were offered for an additional fee during the YMCA course. However, since I already had PADI OW, I didn't need the others for acceptance concerns.

I would be hesitant of some certification that I had never heard of. I would at least do some research into them to see if they would be recognized or not.

There have been shops that have issued fake certifications in the past. One in S Florida was issuing fake PADI certs before being busted. That's easy enough to research. First, look at the shop to understand what agency(ies) they certify to. Then, go to the agency's website and make sure the dive shop/instructor is listed. If so, all good. In the case of the above, searching PADI's website would have shown no such affiliation.

The instructor is more important than the agency.

One thing to note, though, is that the certifications may carry the same name at different agencies, but aren't really the same thing. That could lead to some confusion. Advanced Open Water/Scuba Diver for example has different meanings at some organizations.
For PADI: AOW is an overview into some specialties. It does not equate to a full specialty.
For SSI: AOW is a recognition of completing 4 separate specialties.
For SDI: ASD is a recognition of completing 4 separate specialties.
For NAUI. ASD looks like an overview, but I'm not positive.

Normally, this wouldn't be an issue. However, some charters may require certain certifications for certain dives. Deep and Night/Limited Vis for example. In the case of PADI and NAUI, even if you did Deep and Night/Limited vis dives as part of the AOW cert, it's not a full specialty, so might not meet the requirements. This would all be dependent on the dive charter and their requirements.

Both SSI and SDI offer Advanced Adventure course which is closest equivalent to PADI AOW. SDI also has this equivalency chart on their site.
Recreational Sport Diver Equivalences - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

 

[boulderjohn]

As a PADI instructor, I have a few gripes, not aimed explicitly at PADI. Still, more at old school PADI shops who are unwilling to be innovative and focus on quantity over quality, For instance, students' ratio to one instructor in a course seems rather broad, IMHO. I mitigate this by only allowing four students in any of my classes.


#2, The value-added idea of up-selling a particular specialty: Sure, some specialties are needed, E.g., EAN (Nitrox), Emergency 02, Deep, etc. However, please don't tell me to upsell a Peak Performance Buoyancy Course for a later date—because the LDS AOW course only lasts two days. Moreover, the student never learned correct buoyancy techniques with their Open Water Course because they were on their knees most of the time with seven other students. They should have their buoyancy dialed in before the AOW course.


#3, PADI Shops who sell particular items and only want their instructors to wear those certain items—I am looking at you Aqua Lung "50-star" dealers or whatever it's called these days.


#4 Shops who are afraid of change, e.g., teaching in a BP/W with long hose configuration but who will sell an AIR2 to their newly minted open water diver with crappy buoyancy who would probably panic if they have to take off their mask. 7ft and a known working regulator is a comfortable buffer between a panicked out of air diver and the instructor/diver donating the gas. If you have ever been a lifeguard—you know what it is like to interact with a person who is panicking in water.


These "gripes" have led me to go independent, and I like that PADI supports independent instructors. However, I am looking at and working towards a non-profit organization that favors quality instructors in a particular standardized gear configuration that I happen to agree with and also belive produce highly functional and educated divers. Not to say a PADI Instructor could not provide that same level of instruction—it just happens not to be the norm IMHO.


With all things, this is my 0.02 on the subject and others might feel differently.

Let me get this straight--

you do not like PADI because many PADI instructors still teach students on their knees, despite PADI pushing otherwise. Please list all the other agencies which have all instructors teaching students off their knees. It will be helpful.

You do not like the fact that some PADI shops require instructors to wear specific gear. Is this a PADI policy? Can you name agencies that do not allow their affiliated shops to do this?

You don't like the fact that some PADI shops are afraid to change and teach with a BP/W (a configuration industry statistics indicate account for 1% of all BCD sales) and have students with lousy buoyancy control. As it turns out, the only shops I personally know that teaches students in BP/W are PADI affiliated. Which agency do you know that has affiliated shops that require BP/W instruction?

In summary--please name the shops affiliated with agencies that do otherwise. (BTW, I used to use a shop that advertised as a GUE instructor development center, and although they did sell Halcyon BP/Ws, the vast bulk of their sales was jacket BCDs, and if you took an OW class from them, that's how you would be taught.)

 

[Edward3c]

...

One thing to note, though, is that the certifications may carry the same name at different agencies, but aren't really the same thing. That could lead to some confusion. Advanced Open Water/Scuba Diver for example has different meanings at some organizations.
For PADI: AOW is an overview into some specialties. It does not equate to a full specialty.
For SSI: AOW is a recognition of completing 4 separate specialties.
For SDI: ASD is a recognition of completing 4 separate specialties.
For NAUI. ASD looks like an overview, but I'm not positive.

Normally, this wouldn't be an issue. However, some charters may require certain certifications for certain dives. Deep and Night/Limited Vis for example. In the case of PADI and NAUI, even if you did Deep and Night/Limited vis dives as part of the AOW cert, it's not a full specialty, so might not meet the requirements. This would all be dependent on the dive charter and their requirements.
...

Then there is BSAC Advanced Diver (which has no commercial [PADI] equivalent) - the holder has been assessed to:
* Plan adventurous diving expeditions,
* Manage/coordinate rescue situations,
* Manage and undertake underwater searches,

They’re expected to also be:
* a Diver Cox’en,
* an Open water instructor.