PADI's Course Rush

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Now do you see the connection?

Gotcha.

I still think its the Instructors that make the difference. No matter what the course requires, it allows an Instructor to tailor it to the student. I don't think there is an instructor out there that would allow someone to pass if they are a danger to themselves or others.

For the record, I was certified in 1987 OW PADI and in 2010 DM SEI. So I am pre-PADI quick course but still unbiased.
 
Gotcha.

I still think its the Instructors that make the difference. No matter what the course requires, it allows an Instructor to tailor it to the student. I don't think there is an instructor out there that would allow someone to pass if they are a danger to themselves or others.

For the record, I was certified in 1987 OW PADI and in 2010 DM SEI. So I am pre-PADI quick course but still unbiased.

As a number of PADI Instructors here on ScubaBoard have shown, you can sea-lawyer your way around PADI standards and run a decent class. I don't know of any that include full rescue within a PADI class, like SEI and NAUI Instructors do. As far as the instructor making the difference, that's clearly part of the story, but not the entire story. Another part is what you are allowed to do, and yet another is what you are encouraged to do.
 
I don't think there is an instructor out there that would allow someone to pass if they are a danger to themselves or others.

I think there are plenty of instructors out there, from whatever agency, who do the absolute minimum to satisfy the standards and cycle through as many students/courses as they can.

I've seen more than a few instructors who are, themselves, a danger to themselves and others. How are they supposed to ensure a satisfactory result for their students?

IMHO, the best way to ensure quality (and safety) is to ensure that instructors are properly paid. At this point, the emphasis changes from desperation to earn a subsistence income... to being selective and discriminating about who attends training and who graduates training.

The same is true of dive operations - who can be a big factor in placing undue pressure on instructors to achieve 'volume' turnover, regardless of student competency etc.

It's wrong that so many instructors and dive operations globally are forced to prioritize income over student quality... but that does remain one of the biggest pressures on an instructor...and one of the biggest barriers to improving course provision.
 
PADI was the "pioneer" who removed things like buoyancy control, gas planning and rescue from the entry level course in order to cut the time required in a little less than half. Now do you see the connection?

Buoyancy control and gas planning are still taught, but maybe not to the extent they once were.
 
Buoyancy control and gas planning are still taught, but maybe not to the extent they once were.
They have been all but eliminated from the requirements though some folks like BoulderJohn are finding ways to add them back. Perhaps the pendulum has swung as far as it will and now it is headed back. Wouldn't it be delightful to see agencies competing with one another on the completeness and quality of their educational package?
 
Selecting the coach that will show you the appropriate abilities from the starting is essential. Individually I was fortunate as my PADI coach was enthusiastic about going, and most of his learners came back to do more programs with him after OW.
While you understand that it is essential, most new would-be divers do not. They are buying a pig in a poke with no realization that the pigs are hardly the same. You were fortunate, however, while "most of his learners came back to do more programs with him after OW." may mean that he is a fabulous instructor, it could also mean nothing more than that he has a great line of bull. We all know instructors like that.
 
I think there are plenty of instructors out there, from whatever agency, who do the absolute minimum to satisfy the standards and cycle through as many students/courses as they can.

I've seen more than a few instructors who are, themselves, a danger to themselves and others. How are they supposed to ensure a satisfactory result for their students?

IMHO, the best way to ensure quality (and safety) is to ensure that instructors are properly paid. At this point, the emphasis changes from desperation to earn a subsistence income... to being selective and discriminating about who attends training and who graduates training.

The same is true of dive operations - who can be a big factor in placing undue pressure on instructors to achieve 'volume' turnover, regardless of student competency etc.

It's wrong that so many instructors and dive operations globally are forced to prioritize income over student quality... but that does remain one of the biggest pressures on an instructor...and one of the biggest barriers to improving course provision.

Interesting perspective. Dive professionals in the states are generally not paid squat, but instructor is not often a full time job. Many instructors don't need the income as they rely on other Full time employment. There is no pressure in the States on instructors by dive ops. In most states there are no dive ops. There is little pressure placed on the instructors by the LDS they work for. The LDS is the one responsible for recruiting new students.

From what I have witnessed the USA LDS wants the best possible instruction in the time allotted. The instructors do the best they can from what I have experienced and witnessed. During the Checkout dives the instructor works a 12 hour day, and then 1/2 day (6 hrs) on the second day, but that also involves 6 hours of driving one way home, so a very long 2 1/2 day weekend. Our Denver instructors are a hard working and a great group.

This does not sound like the world view.
 
I'm not really going to pick on PADI. Since I started to dive with PADI. However, it scares me that places in Cairns do an OW in two days. Now, I'm not an Instructor, hell I'm no master scuba diver, but I've worked on Dive Boats and I can pick "these" PADI Divers from any other diver. They have no control and just don't have the comfort level as any other PADI or other organisation. I've started to go through my NAUI training. I find that it's to much for a basic diver to need. However the actual dives that need to be done, makes for better divers.

Personal, I would never dive with a two day OW.
 
Pullmyfinger:6230737:
Why not a PADI DM?:wink:

Well, I joined a Scuba Club that is an Educational Club originally formed in 1958. They taught YMCA Scuba....now its SEI. I never really was blown away with the Dive shops courses through PADI. The SEI course is a bit more demanding especially when you put them side by side.
 

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