Passing the Swim Test

[60plus]

Just my opinion, but if you can't swim 200m very comfortably you should not be diving. I can swim crawl (used to regularly do a mile in 22 to 25 minutes when I was on club swimming team practice) but for open water I much prefer sidestroke. It shelters your mouth from waves and gives better all round visibility.

 

[TMHeimer]

Just my opinion, but if you can't swim 200m very comfortably you should not be diving. I can swim crawl (used to regularly do a mile in 22 to 25 minutes when I was on club swimming team practice) but for open water I much prefer sidestroke. It shelters your mouth from waves and gives better all round visibility.

This is something I've pontificated (is that the right word?) about for years. First you have to define "very comfortably". My definition is simply using a proper stroke. This is something I only saw students do on occasion while I was assisting OW courses. More than not, the head came out of the water side to side with each arm stroke, among other technical errors in form. I had trouble with the DM 400 meter swim because my mechanics were off, having not done any real swimming for 35 years, though a ton of snorkeling in all kinds of conditions--WITH FINS, which means really nothing much at all to do with proper swimming. Also noted that I was on the high school swim team circa 1970. Having said that, I can assure you I was extremely comfortable in water since maybe age 7. I did get advice from my competitive swimming brothers, who fixed up my problems, which basically were poor breathing technique, too any kicks per arm stroke, and poor arm stroke technique. You forget a lot in 35 years. I "gutted out" the 200 in OW and was definitely not comfortable about my swimming. Eventually I scored fine on the DM 400 when I fixed up my technique (scored 3 out of 5, or about 400m in 12-13 minutes--not Olympic Gold, but pretty good at age 56 after almost 40 years of no swimming). All of that stuff has very little to do with diving. Though I actually do agree that you should be able to swim to at least some extent and at least KNOW about correct technique prior to taking OW. I've seen some pretty interesting cases with students when I've shaken my head.
Sorry to rehash all that old stuff.

60plus, As I said, I pretty much agree with you. But keep in mind you are looking at it from a REAL swimmer's point of view. My older brother (he still won an amateur Gold in his age class 2 years ago age 73) always chides me on to do this 2 mile Swim we all attend, instead of being the cameraman. I tell him "yeah, I'll make it to the first buoy for sure....". Besides executing a proper stroke, to do any distance in a decent time you need to be in "swimming" shape. Other exercises such a jogging, biking, etc. helps, but very little. Once I got my stroke back I needed a LOT of pool laps to get a decent time going.
In my 4 years of DMing I can say that MAYBE 25% of OW students had a pretty good proper stroke. I do agree that this doesn't seem right.

 

[Schwob]

This is something I've pontificated (is that the right word?) about for years. First you have to define "very comfortably". My definition is simply using a proper stroke. This is something I only saw students do on occasion while I was assisting OW courses. More than not, the head came out of the water side to side with each arm stroke, among other technical errors in form. I had trouble with the DM 400 meter swim because my mechanics were off, having not done any real swimming for 35 years, though a ton of snorkeling in all kinds of conditions--WITH FINS, which means really nothing much at all to do with proper swimming. Also noted that I was on the high school swim team circa 1970. Having said that, I can assure you I was extremely comfortable in water since maybe age 7. I did get advice from my competitive swimming brothers, who fixed up my problems, which basically were poor breathing technique, too any kicks per arm stroke, and poor arm stroke technique. You forget a lot in 35 years. I "gutted out" the 200 in OW and was definitely not comfortable about my swimming. Eventually I scored fine on the DM 400 when I fixed up my technique (scored 3 out of 5, or about 400m in 12-13 minutes--not Olympic Gold, but pretty good at age 56 after almost 40 years of no swimming). All of that stuff has very little to do with diving. Though I actually do agree that you should be able to swim to at least some extent and at least KNOW about correct technique prior to taking OW. I've seen some pretty interesting cases with students when I've shaken my head.
Sorry to rehash all that old stuff.

I am getting increasingly lost about/with/on that thread... maybe my internet-swimming-skills are insufficient to make it through a SB thread on the swimming test for OW diver wannabes...
My reply and question are not only meant to the poster I happen to reply to:

Are we still in the OP's thread about the swim test for people learning to dive and you are pontificating that anyone endeavoring to learn to dive better put him/herself into position to pass the DM swim test first?
If so, how many new divers would that leave for the industry per year?
Certainly not enough for industry wide profits, but better and fitter divers they likly would be.
...
.... Or have we just moved completely on to the DM test or just general personal swimming prowess boasting ...
...
... or am I just completely missing something (not uncommon) ???

 

[Bubblesong]

I think the point of this thread is that swimming ability is not static: You have to pass the test to get the card, sure. But after that you either get motivated to practice, and get better. Or never swim another stroke unless it’s up to the resort pool bar. And then as you get older and less fit swimmer, less likely to be able to save yourself or others.
For us living in “human drydock”, how to practice swimming?

 

[TMHeimer]

I am getting increasingly lost about/with/on that thread... maybe my internet-swimming-skills are insufficient to make it through a SB thread on the swimming test for OW diver wannabes...
My reply and question are not only meant to the poster I happen to reply to:

Are we still in the OP's thread about the swim test for people learning to dive and you are pontificating that anyone endeavoring to learn to dive better put him/herself into position to pass the DM swim test first?
If so, how many new divers would that leave for the industry per year?
Certainly not enough for industry wide profits, but better and fitter divers they likly would be.
...
.... Or have we just moved completely on to the DM test or just general personal swimming prowess boasting ...
...
... or am I just completely missing something (not uncommon) ???

I just used my experience with the DM test to illustrate my point. Swimming is swimming and I agree with 60plus that one should know how to swim at least reasonably properly before taking OW course. And of course the 200 meter OW swim test has no time requirement. Just pointing out that swimming is a life skill--one that anyone doing anything on or near water over their head should know. I also used the DM test example to show that someone like me, who WAS a pretty darn good swimmer, can lose that skill over time--BUT, it doesn't necessarily mean you are uncomfortable on scuba, or in water in general. My post is just an extension of the various threads that call for "swimming vs. scuba", and how they are related. They are distant cousins at best, since one makes use of fins, the other doesn't. There probably is about a .0001% chance a scuba diver would ever find him/herself in a position WITHOUT FINS where swimming with a proper stroke for 200 meters to safety or to rescue someone would occur. Like, 2nd rule of Rescue Course--Have mask/fins/snorkel ready at all times. I often wondered why you are not allowed to use your arms when doing the DM 800 meter mask/fin/snorkel test--Why not use arms too--that's the way you'll go to rescue someone. And then make the test longer, say, to 1,200 yards. Or, you could chose to swim without fins to a panicked diver 200 meters away and try to rescue, tow them (good luck with that).

I'm not at all boasting, nor suggesting ANYONE score a measly 3 on the DM test like I did. Just saying knowing a proper swim stroke and completing the OW 200 meter swim without coming close to a heart attack is a good idea. Whether you dive, or just go in the ocean surf for a swim.
There are a number of old threads on this subject with varying opinions, several in the Going Pro subforum.

As Bubblesong says in the next post, I haven't swam one lap since passing that DM test back in 2011. Am not the least bit worried about that when I scuba dive--but I do know what I was doing wrong mechanically back then, so I could probably still do a couple of pool laps before konking out. I don't swim pool laps because although it is acknowledged that swimming is overall probably the best exercise you can do--certainly no jarring on the joints like running. But, I find it %#*% ing
boring. I can see where it would be of interest if you chose to enter competitions.

 

[Schwob]

I think the point of this thread is that swimming ability is not static: You have to pass the test to get the card, sure. But after that you either get motivated to practice, and get better. Or never swim another stroke unless it’s up to the resort pool bar. And then as you get older and less fit swimmer, less likely to be able to save yourself or others.
For us living in “human drydock”, how to practice swimming?

Yeah, I got that part ... and I am all with that. That's all good. And swiming prowess varies vastly in divers of course and with that there of course is a point for thoughts on how a decent swimmer may become a better one. All fair.
I was stuck in my thinking with the beginning divers that would benefit the most from swimming prowess improvement. Those that got through the test in doggy paddle or other unortodox and inefficient style. And in thinking about them I thought how hard it must be for someone struggling to swim the 200 or 300 yards or so required in the OW swim test and taking 20 or more minutes to get there... how they react to reading about the struggles of those swimming a mile in 20 minutes with improving that ... as for the person at that very bottom of barely making the OW swimming grade level, a mile in 20 minutes is entirely unfathomable and makes their efforts to try to improve seemingly (incorrectly of course) quite hopless and pointless. I am not making this up, got one in the family... improving... but slooowly...

Anyway you are correct, improvment is a good thing to strive for from any level and I got carried away with being a bit preoccupied with the barely making it end of the spectrum.

 

[dmaziuk]

For us living in “human drydock”, how to practice swimming?

I don't think you can. I happen to have the university pool 3 blocks away from the office and I dread the day they tear it down and I'll have to go to the one they're building 10 blocks away. I've no idea how one can practice swimming if it's a regular health club fee plus 40 minutes of driving each way plus good luck finding a parking spot and all the joys of urban living on top.

 

[TMHeimer]

dmaziuk, Agree, as that was the situation I was in training for the DM swim--50 miles from the pool and Canadian gas prices. But, you do what you gotta do. Others may be even further from a pool.

Schwob, I agree with your last post completely. I get stuck on certain points as well. Such as insisting that you'd probably never have to swim at all as a scuba diver, much less 200 yards or a mile. And my view that swimming is a life skill that all should have unless you live in Saskatchewan and only go in Last Mountain Lake up to chest depth.

The thing that puzzled me the most when I was assisting on courses was the odd person who signed up and may never have done anything at all in water other than stand up or splash around in a motel pool. What are they thinking?

 

[agilis]

Long ago in Jamaica I was diving with the owner of a small beachfront scuba operation. It was just him and me in a small open boat, with his young nephew remaining in the boat. We were diving in less than 60 feet, and came up after an hour, in the same spot at the top of the reef where we had begun the dive. When we surfaced our boat was barely in view, having drifted at least a half mile while Cecil's nephew dozed. We were about two miles off the beach and the boat was still drifting.

Cecil said "I hope you can swim".

I can swim, no problem, I replied.

"Good, because I can't."

We took off our BCDs, inflated them to use as a kind of raft, and began a long, long swim.

 

[60plus]

What I meant by being able to swim 200 m comfortably was not that it should necessarily be done with good stoke technique. I meant that someone should be able to do it not too slowly without becoming unduly tired. It is also to do with confidence in the water when you have to surface some distance from the boat or beach, or you come across an unusual bit of current. I do a bit of open water swimming in rivers, lakes and the sea and its not unusual to have driftwood or submerged obstructions. Ploughing into these at crawl speed with reduced visibility can be very painful, that's why I tend to use sidestroke. In my brief time diving I have seen quite a number of divers who are far more qualified and experienced than me have difficulty approaching a boat or jetty steps in rough water - some where really struggling and close to exhaustion.