Physical conditioning

[northen diver]

Tangential arguments. Diving skills are not in question here, and neither is specifically the swimming ability of the individual. Although I do agree with the aspect of specificity of training when it comes to the need to swim any distance.

I have no intention of diving with severly deconditioned buddies, as I don't want to increase the likelihood that I'm going to have to deal with the rescue and (in the USA) the very likely lawsuit from the family in denial that I somehow contributed to the individual's death due to improper eating, lack of exercise, and not being aware enough of their own limitations to know when to stay out of the water.

My personal situation?

I'm in my 50's, still about 20 lbs overweight, but have lost 25 lbs in the last year. How did I get that big? When I retired from the Army I swore the next I was running that someone would be chasing me. Found out that wasn't working out too well.

I now lift weights 4 days per week, run 35-50 miles per month, swim approximately 3-5 miles per month, and snorkel about 5-7 miles per month. I augment it with a comprehensive stretching program, for general reasons as well as ensuring I can reach my valves when necessary.

I track my progress for in-water training against the PADI DM test (swim, snorkel, etc.) and maintain a 16-18 pt scoring ability, and for out of water, I use both the Army PFT and Marine PFT events (scoring 283 and 177 pts, respectively as of this month).

I ask nothing of others that I don't demand of myself. I don't expect my buddy to be a marathoner (one is), but if you (editorial "you", not northern diver specifically) don't even TRY to stay fit, why should I be the one who will have to drag you out while performing in-water resuscitation?

Not throwing stones, but I believe that you are an instructor and you didnt keep yourself fit and were overweight, yet you were able to teach. Does that make you a unsafe instructor with your students? I dont think so.

My point is dont push ones perceived "fitness test" on me to get a C card. Ones fitness should be a personal choice. I dont want a training agency telling me that I have to run x miles in x amount of time, or be able to do x number of laps in a pool in x amount of time. I have no problem with a swim test since we are in the water on scuba, but why time it. Even todays lifegaurds swim test is going away from the timed 300-500 yard swim tests. I personally enjoy excercising. I run 30-40 miles per week, bike 40 + miles per day and enjoy mini triathons and half marathons. So I am not saying this because I am one of those that dont like to exercise. If I dont want to dive with someone for whatever reason, such as they smoke, are overweight, are out of shape, or they cuss or whatever, that is my choice that I can make on my own without an agency telling me other wise.

 

[Pearldiver07]

Not throwing stones, but I believe that you are an instructor and you didnt keep yourself fit and were overweight, yet you were able to teach. Does that make you a unsafe instructor with your students? I dont think so.

My point is dont push ones perceived "fitness test" on me to get a C card. Ones fitness should be a personal choice. I dont want a training agency telling me that I have to run x miles in x amount of time, or be able to do x number of laps in a pool in x amount of time. I have no problem with a swim test since we are in the water on scuba, but why time it. Even todays lifegaurds swim test is going away from the timed 300-500 yard swim tests. I personally enjoy excercising. I run 30-40 miles per week, bike 40 + miles per day and enjoy mini triathons and half marathons. So I am not saying this because I am one of those that dont like to exercise. If I dont want to dive with someone for whatever reason, such as they smoke, are overweight, are out of shape, or they cuss or whatever, that is my choice that I can make on my own without an agency telling me other wise.

As a matter of fact, I didn't dive while at the overweight/deconditioned state you see above.

But I can agree with an agency setting this type of standard to keep diving. I don't trust most others to make that type of decision, let alone the logistics of enforcing it. Police have fitness requirements to become an officer, yet I still see many that could never pass their entrance requirements. The same would occur in diving.

But I do believe at the pro level there should be an ongoing fitness requirement. At this point there are concerns that fitness will impact others. But that could be another thread.

 

[wb416]

You can say the samething about any type of activity to include sitting in a recliner.

Even if you start a excercise program from living a sedentary life, it is recommended to see a doctor before excercising.
I had known people that has passed away while sitting in a recliner or lying in bed.

OTOH, I had a friend that passed away serveral years ago. She ran several full marathons per year and was a true health nut. She went out running, did not come home on night, her husband went looking for her and found her on the side of the rode unconscience. They had thought a car tagged her, the medical examiner ruled it a heart attack. She was 46 years old.

Chronic Cardio.... it has it's own documented limitations. It's kind of funny to see marathoners and people doing triathlons as being put on a pedestal as the epitome of fitness (not saying that's what you did with your example... but it pushed my "soapbox button"... LOL). They are certainly great at a particular thing... distance, but it comes at the sacrifice of many other areas of fitness (e.g. lean muscle, fast twitch fibers, etc).... something popular like bodybuilding is another extreme that makes sacrifices in the "fitness continuum".

IMHO... think decathlon and decathletes if you want to get a sense of broad based general fitness.... then find ways to enjoy being active in many different areas yourself... not necessarily the five specific events in the decathlon.

 

[H2O 70]

Not throwing stones, but I believe that you are an instructor and you didnt keep yourself fit and were overweight, yet you were able to teach. Does that make you a unsafe instructor with your students? I dont think so.

I beg to differ.

Both of you are former military. One of you was a grunt and I can't remember what Pearldiver was. When you went to basic your DS's, who were likely much older than you, were PT gods. They could do more push ups than you, they could run father than you, they could march longer than you. If they wanted to, they could have kicked the crap out of you. They set and example. They set the standard.

Now imagine if those DS looked like half the divers that are out there?

You know that you're DS, despite his desire to smoke you every two seconds, was never going to allow you to get too hurt. They had the physical, and mental, ability to conduct the training and instruction that they do without many folks getting hurt.

As an instructor, or any level of diving professional, you need to have a descent level of physical fitness. If something happens that you need to respond to and you physically can't do it, I'd argue in court you're being negligent and unsafe.

During my DMC I had a full on situation. We had a student who was 65, or 66. He weighed 330#'s. He had a medical diving clearance from his Dr. During day one of checkouts we were doing the surface swim navigation exercises. We were snorkeling triangles. Well this student somehow knocked his snorkel from his mask and inhaled water. I looked at him, I saw the panic in his eyes. His eyes were huge. He started to flail. I was able to get behind him and execute a rescue swim him an easy 100m. By the time I got to shore with him, staff on the shore were getting to the waters edge. In the end he was fine. Swimming his 330# butt was hard. If I wasn't in shape it would have been that much harder and I could have put myself in jeopardy as well.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

My point is dont push ones perceived "fitness test" on me to get a C card. Ones fitness should be a personal choice. I dont want a training agency telling me that I have to run x miles in x amount of time, or be able to do x number of laps in a pool in x amount of time. I have no problem with a swim test since we are in the water on scuba, but why time it. Even todays lifegaurds swim test is going away from the timed 300-500 yard swim tests. I personally enjoy excercising. I run 30-40 miles per week, bike 40 + miles per day and enjoy mini triathons and half marathons. So I am not saying this because I am one of those that dont like to exercise. If I dont want to dive with someone for whatever reason, such as they smoke, are overweight, are out of shape, or they cuss or whatever, that is my choice that I can make on my own without an agency telling me other wise.

And my point is that standards are everywhere. It is a STANDARD to learn mask skills and ascents, and everything else to pass a class. I am simply stating that another STANDARD should be to get fit for a class, and only reasonably so at that. I am not saying you need to be military ready.

You try to pass it off as saving people from onerous requirements, when what you really are doing is giving new divers the false sense that the sport actually doesn't need a person to be fit. Sure you don't NEED to be fit to breath air underwater, but really there is much more than that to SCUBA diving (which I am almost sure you are aware of). As experienced divers it is your duty to help protect new divers and introduce the sport at a point where they will most likely cannot get hurt; you can't do that honestly if you don't require fitness. You always have the choice to NOT DIVE if you don't want to exercise. And surely, you don't NEED a c-card to dive and no license is necessary to buy equipment; so 'Big Brother" isn't forcing you into anything are they?

I would think, with your excellent healthy you would try to promote good health in others instead of trying to exempt people from unhealthy and potentially dangerous situations.

 

[northen diver]

I beg to differ.

Both of you are former military. One of you was a grunt and I can't remember what Pearldiver was. When you went to basic your DS's, who were likely much older than you, were PT gods. They could do more push ups than you, they could run father than you, they could march longer than you. If they wanted to, they could have kicked the crap out of you. They set and example. They set the standard.

Now imagine if those DS looked like half the divers that are out there?

You know that you're DS, despite his desire to smoke you every two seconds, was never going to allow you to get too hurt. They had the physical, and mental, ability to conduct the training and instruction that they do without many folks getting hurt.



As an instructor, or any level of diving professional, you need to have a descent level of physical fitness. If something happens that you need to respond to and you physically can't do it, I'd argue in court you're being negligent and unsafe.

During my DMC I had a full on situation. We had a student who was 65, or 66. He weighed 330#'s. He had a medical diving clearance from his Dr. During day one of checkouts we were doing the surface swim navigation exercises. We were snorkeling triangles. Well this student somehow knocked his snorkel from his mask and inhaled water. I looked at him, I saw the panic in his eyes. His eyes were huge. He started to flail. I was able to get behind him and execute a rescue swim him an easy 100m. By the time I got to shore with him, staff on the shore were getting to the waters edge. In the end he was fine. Swimming his 330# butt was hard. If I wasn't in shape it would have been that much harder and I could have put myself in jeopardy as well.

DI's are considered based off qaulifications that include a high PT score. A DI does not teach everything in basic training. There are Land Nav, BRM, CWT's and medical NCO's that teach courses.

BTW, I train lifeguards, and I seen 105 lbs. 16 year old females do a multiple victim rescue tow just fine. It does not take a whole lot of strenghth or physical conditioning, it is about training/skills.

 

[northen diver]

And my point is that standards are everywhere. It is a STANDARD to learn mask skills and ascents, and everything else to pass a class. I am simply stating that another STANDARD should be to get fit for a class, and only reasonably so at that. I am not saying you need to be military ready.

You try to pass it off as saving people from onerous requirements, when what you really are doing is giving new divers the false sense that the sport actually doesn't need a person to be fit. Sure you don't NEED to be fit to breath air underwater, but really there is much more than that to SCUBA diving (which I am almost sure you are aware of). As experienced divers it is your duty to help protect new divers and introduce the sport at a point where they will most likely cannot get hurt; you can't do that honestly if you don't require fitness. You always have the choice to NOT DIVE if you don't want to exercise. And surely, you don't NEED a c-card to dive and no license is necessary to buy equipment; so 'Big Brother" isn't forcing you into anything are they?



I would think, with your excellent healthy you would try to promote good health in others instead of trying to exempt people from unhealthy and potentially dangerous situations.

The statement that you made: It would be nice to see certification agencies require more intensive physical fitness requirements so that the divers are safer, their buddies are safer, and so they can get more enjoyment out of the sport.

I think people should excercise to stay healthy, but I dont agree with having the dive agencies to require an intensive physical fitness requirement.

Just out of curosity, what would you say would be the standard for ow divers and instructors?

 

[H2O 70]

Just out of curosity, what would you say would be the standard for ow divers and instructors?

I would like to see the DM swim test required yearly in order to maintain active status. That would be a start.

 

[northen diver]

I would like to see the DM swim test required yearly in order to maintain active status. That would be a start.

I dont think that the DM swim test is really a physical requirements. I look at that as more of a skills test. I have friends that couldnt run a mile or ride a bike 3 miles without a risk of hurting themselfs, but they sure can swim. I think the current DM's and instructors should be tested on their skills on a regular basis, since they have a duty to a standard of care, but not the average joe/jane diver. But not a intensive physical requirement. They should be able to demonstate rescues and rescue tows for a standard of care.

 

[H2O 70]

I dont think that the DM swim test is really a physical requirements. I look at that as more of a skills test. I have friends that couldnt run a mile or ride a bike 3 miles without a risk of hurting themselfs, but they sure can swim. I think the current DM's and instructors should be tested on their skills on a regular basis, since they have a duty to a standard of care, but not the average joe/jane diver. But not a intensive physical requirement. They should be able to demonstate rescues and rescue tows for a standard of care.

The DM swim test I'm referring to is the 400m swim, the 800m snorkel, the 15 minute water tread and the 100m tired diver tow. They are supposed to done sequentially and there are time limits.

I wouldn't call these skills.

Since diving is swimming related I would consider these more relevant than running a few miles or riding a bike.