Planned deco on a recreational dive?

[irsubmarine]

So, I've been diving at this great little dive center. Feels like a second home, great people, interesting dive sites blah blah. The other day a group of divers show up. They all have around 500 dives (way more than me for now) and seemed reasonably experienced.They are all have PADI rescue rating (like me). Next thing I know they've requested a 45 meter dive and plan to go into deco (aiming for 10 minutes deco stop max). I'm also scheduled for this dive. Now here's the hitch, only 1 person is actually a tech diver and it's not one of the customers. I said yes to the dive because a few minutes of deco didn't seem too serious and I've accidentally gone into deco twice so I had an idea of what to expect when it comes to understanding what my computer is telling regarding deco. However, due to some circumstances the dive never actually happened.

I still don't know what to make of the whole situation. Am I being a scuba prude for having this leave a bad after-taste in my mouth? I mean, I was not planning to venture into the technical realm just yet. As a recreational diver I am inclined to stick to the limits suggested by PADI. 5 meters deeper than 40 just because its more thrilling (or whatever their reasoning) seems like asking for trouble to me. Am I alone in these thoughts? Feel like I'm on a rant here, but I'm very curious if this is an exception or if this actually happens a lot in dive centers (i.e. customers asking to dip their toes a little beyond the recreational realm (especially when it comes to depth and deco stops) and dive centers agreeing.

 

[Wookie]

Here is my personal feeling. As divers, there is no such thing as Scuba Police, and they can go do whatever they want. However. If you are acting in the capacity of dive leader, or you are a certified divemaster leading the dive, or even on the dive, or you are representing the dive shop, or if the dive shop is allowing this to happen, then the dive shop is hanging out liability wise for no good reason.

The recreational limit for recreational diving is 130 feet. Not 130 feet plus a little extra for each 100 logged dives, (I have over 6,000 logged dives, so AFAIC, 500 dive divers are still noobs and probably still need their hand held) not 130 feet plus a little extra because their credit card worked, but 130 feet. If they want to dive to 1,000 feet like Dr. Deep did, more power to them. If you take them there, shame on you and your insurance company.

But that's just me. You need to do what feels right to you, and hope for the best. Hope is not a good way to lead a dive, however.

 

[_Ralph]

Being a prude? Not at all.

Diving outside of your training and comfort zone isn't something to take lightly.

Also, you're not alone in those thoughts. I wouldn't agree to a charter based on what you mentioned above. Not at least without doing at least a dive with the other group before hand, and a serious talk about what is going to happen in the water for the above mentioned dive.

Just quickly plugging in a 45m dive for 15 minutes in DecoPlanner spits out a 10minute stop at 6m/20ft on air (with a nominal ascent schedule. It would also require more gas than what is in an AL80. No mention of contingency ('pony' bottles, doubles - manifold or otherwise) .....


_R

 

[tursiops]

You are not trained for 45m, you are not trained for deco.
Walk away.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Have you dove that deep before on a frequent basis? I would not be too worried about the dive at all, as long as everyone is used to that kind of depth and also doing some deco.

However, 10 minutes deco is "significant" from my limited perspective and I would not be planning 10 minutes of deco without carrying my own redundancy with respect to air supply.

If you are diving nitrox, it might require a pretty big tank to get everyone into 5-10 minutes of deco and back to the surface with a margin of reserve for emergencies. Planning the details, preparing for problems and having sufficient equipment to handle unforeseen issues is probably more important than a plastic card in your wallet. Also the ability of everyone to function reasonably well at those depths is something that should have been demonstrated before such a dive.

 

[Scared Silly]

The real question is what was the reason for the 45m dive? For example in Truk Lagoon there are dives that are very similar in that range. They can be accomplished with or without deco. But there is a need for that depth.

The main issue with going into deco is not if everything goes as planned but what happens if Davey Jones coms a calling??

 

[Bob DBF]

My first question would be what is the purpose of the dive. If there is a good reason, for me, I might be interested and the next question would be who exactly will be around me and what is their plan.

That being said, it takes more to get me to do deco now than 40 years ago, and I had well over 100 dives when I started. I learned OJT but now there is formal training and a lot more known about deco and safety than back then. I was careful and lucky, how do you feel.


Bob

 

[TMHeimer]

You are not trained for 45m, you are not trained for deco.
Walk away.

Agree. I've been to 130' but no more, and that was on the Deep course itself. Why do something outside your training? And only one of them is tech. trained? Seems like a no brainer to me. Not that it makes any difference, but are they on Air (I know many have dived below that on bounce dives with air, including my brother who went to 200' decades ago and said it was the stupidest thing he ever did) or maybe like Nitrox 28 or so? Also, as mentioned, gas supply--extra tanks, ponys, etc.? Not much bottom time even at 130' on Air.

 

[irsubmarine]

The recreational limit for recreational diving is 130 feet. Not 130 feet plus a little extra for each 100 logged dives, (I have over 6,000 logged dives, so AFAIC, 500 dive divers are still noobs and probably still need their hand held) not 130 feet plus a little extra because their credit card worked, but 130 feet. If they want to dive to 1,000 feet like Dr. Deep did, more power to them. If you take them there, shame on you and your insurance company.

But that's just me. You need to do what feels right to you, and hope for the best. Hope is not a good way to lead a dive, however.

heh yea, that actually brings up an interesting question.. If the situation would go south and I end up in a hyperbaric chamber or worse, would my DAN insurance actually cover costs at all since I'm diving beyond my training? I'm assuming not but I will try to look that up unless some DAN expert here wants to chime in.

Have you dove that deep before on a frequent basis? I would not be too worried about the dive at all, as long as everyone is used to that kind of depth and also doing some deco.

However, 10 minutes deco is "significant" from my limited perspective and I would not be planning 10 minutes of deco without carrying my own redundancy with respect to air supply.

If you are diving nitrox, it might require a pretty big tank to get everyone into 5-10 minutes of deco and back to the surface with a margin of reserve for emergencies. Planning the details, preparing for problems and having sufficient equipment to handle unforeseen issues is probably more important than a plastic card in your wallet. Also the ability of everyone to function reasonably well at those depths is something that should have been demonstrated before such a dive.

I feel comfortable with my limited experience at 40m. We were set to use 15 liter tanks. Those are the only things I knew were in place. Planning was likely in the form of the divemaster knowing what he was doing and the rest blindly following him (an assumption). I didn't see any DecoPlanners materialize...

My first question would be what is the purpose of the dive. If there is a good reason, for me, I might be interested and the next question would be who exactly will be around me and what is their plan.
Bob

The real question is what was the reason for the 45m dive? For example in Truk Lagoon there are dives that are very similar in that range. They can be accomplished with or without deco. But there is a need for that depth.

The main issue with going into deco is not if everything goes as planned but what happens if Davey Jones coms a calling??

The dive site has some interesting geological formations but nothing super spectacular. Definitely not in the spectacular way of Truk Lagoon. From the feedback I gathered at the dive center, those divers just wanted to do it for the sake of doing it. I wouldn't know how to handle Davy Jones outside of the recreational realm. I don't want to deal with Davy Jones.. :/

Agree. I've been to 130' but no more, and that was on the Deep course itself. Why do something outside your training? And only one of them is tech. trained? Seems like a no brainer to me.

You are not trained for 45m, you are not trained for deco.
Walk away.

It's good to hear others say this verbatim. Until I'm tech trained, walk away I shall.

 

[divezonescuba]

Good decision.

One of the things taught in TEC courses is to never do a "trust me" dive.