Pony bottle instead of an octopus for Initial certification!?

[Aegir]

My friend, sean, age 19, has decided to start scuba classes. He isn't completely ignorant about diving since his uncle is a very experienced commercial diver and sean has dived with his uncle on a few occasions.

I told sean that i was probably going to start using a pony bottle as my standard alternative air source. Since sean has the money to buy just about whatever kit he wants he said he was going to invest in a pony bottle for the start of his PADI OW classes. He was wondering if this idea would be less than well recieved by his instructor since there's a good chance that he will be the only one there with a pony bottle. I told him that it shouldnt matter at all, since PADI stipulates only that you have an alternative air source, it doesnt say which type.

Could i get a proffesional opinion on this please.

 

[Rick Murchison]

No problem.
Have at it.
Rick

 

[turnerjd]

Aegir,

As a PADI DM having worked on such courses, I would suggest that it would be easier for him to do the course using the standard kit as supplied by whoever he learns with.

reasons,

1) all the instructors / dm's are increadably familiar with the course kit, and rely on this knowledge when fixing problems underwater - they might not want people changeing things (for me this isn't a problem, but for some it might be)

2) Balance in water is a bit harder in water with a pony - he will probably find it easier without to start off with. he can always play round straight after the course with buoyance, and sorting out balance in the water afterwards - I find by BCD wants to twist round a bit, and feels lop-sided with a pony - probably best for a beginner to avoid this

3) Peer pressure - The instructor won't want a novice using kit he doesn't have will he? - how many PADI instructors have you seen in stoney with a pony? (personally only 1 - and he only uses it on AOW deep dives)

4) Kit assembly - some forms of pony mounting are harder to get right than others - e.g. the nylon bags that the Faber steel 3L 'c come in - they have velcro bands to do round the tank. For some-one relatively new to the sport they are a nightmare to get everything in place and tight enough, because of the way the tank assembles to the pony, and then the tank to the BCD - save this untill he has a few propper dives under his belt.

5) he will eventually start building up his own full set of kit, personally a pony comes below mask, fins snorkel, drysuit, reg, bcd and tank. - when he has all this then he can sort out a pony, and finding the best mounting system etc.. to go with his setup.

6) The instructor might request that he does the whole course (inc pool sesions) with the pony, so than he doesn't have a different setup for the open water dives. If not, he will probably be flailing about all over the place.

So, It is certainly a good idea once he starts the AOW. However, there are people that could very happily do the course with a pony.

Just my 0.02

Jon T

 

[Aegir]

Thanks Jon.

I hope he listens to me, he said he wants to get into the habit of using a pony bottle. Also his uncle told him to settle for nothing less than a pony when diving.

I agree though, of course things would be a little crazy should he use a pony bottle in the confined water dives, heh. He has all the kit now, including a S600/Mk20 reg set, quattro and scubapro split fins, Ap valves buddy Pioneer TD stabjacket, etc.

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[turnerjd]

A diver in the UK using scubapro regs. What is the world comming to. With Apeks being so much cheeper etc...

Jon T

 

[Aegir]

Not really Jon, I found this site

http://www.scubakit.co.uk

Sean got his reg set from there for 250 squid

 

[Remora]

I agree

It is not that doing the O/W with a pony is against any regs You have to ask yourself, Who is the alternate air source really for? not for the guy carrying it but his buddy. The student buddy must learn the correct procedure for locating securing and using the alt air source in normal diving conditions. IE alternate second stage in the normal config. If your friend would like to get pointers for pony use, I would assume he could ask an instructor/DM after the O/W trg is complete.

I do not agree with the peer pressure point of view, but think that this person should look at the practical point of view. The right tool for the job comes to mind as an appropriate saying. It is the same reason you should not see tech divers strapping on doubles and such for a dive to 3-4M (unless specific training objectives are to met)

just my .02

 

[Mario S Caner]

I too see no problems whatsoever with pony bottle use during o/w training. In fact that's the perfect time to start. The instructor will teach your friend the proper way to setup his rig and access it when needed. Since money doesn't seam to be an issue, recommend to him to pick up an integrated octo setup for his bc as well, this way he will have a redundant system that is even safer.

If a student were to come upto me with that type of gear setup, not only would I approve, but I would use that as a good example to follow for the rest of my students.

 

[King_Neptune]

Situation:

• Another diver is out of air or experiences equipment failure, etc...
  
• They see you nearby, and as always - floating effortlessly, displaying flawless, almost underwater godlike control of bouyancy, sucking away contently on that juicy fresh supply of life substaining air ....

What do they do ???

1) *tapping on your sholder and writing on their fancy underwater slate* ... "Excuse me Sir / Ma'am, I seem to be having some trouble here, could I bother you for a few puffs?"

2) After frantically shreading across that 10,000 year old pristine reef you paid $20,000 to travel to visit - Scale up one side of you and down the other and vigorously craming in their face the first obvious source of air they can find...

Now, I have been diving for some time and have more dives under my belt than I can count, but I have yet to see #1 be the norm.

Although not for everyone, I personally use, and maybe for reasons many of you may or may not quickly grasp, a "Air2" type setup. But I also like to have some form of pony bottle straped to my body as well.

I know, I know, none of you would ever do anything like #2, and everyone has a story or two to tell, but think about it... If you were to be honest, just what would you do to survive?

=-)

 

[Rick Murchison]

As to whether training with a pony was a problem or not. Nope, not a problem - at least not in my class.

Rick