Primary cause of preventable scuba deaths...poor judgment?

[Crush]

After all at half the deaths are to divers with less than 20 dives.

I am curious where you found that bit of information. I have looked at several years worth of DAN Annual Reports and I can't find any such value. I did find that in the 2008 report the most populated statistical bin of fatalities occur in the "greater than 10 years diving" bin. Granted, this bin might be populated by those who only dove twice a year, thereby making up the "less than 20 dives" you noted. However, I find this to be doubtful.

 

[TMHeimer]

I think that panic plays a large part in these deaths. Working through an unexpected situation is only possible if you keep your cool. An unpaniced diver with a buddy can survive many of the situations that commonly result in deaths.

Thanks. I wanted to mention panic, but couldn't find the right words. I have been in a couple of "semi"- tight situations due to cramping and currents, but I was not near the world of panic. I do believe that given the right set of circumstances, anyone anywhere will eventually panic. Even the most seasoned diver with 10,000 dives--if he/she thinks the last breath is soon to come. We all hope we can always remember to "stop, breathe, and think".

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

TS&M...it's hard to disagree with your comments in general. The boundary line incident I would read differently. I knew her and have been in the water with her (not as her buddy) and I just don't think training was the issue (it wouldn't have hurt of course). We can call it A.D.D or simply someone who had very little dive skills and didn't really seem too concerned about it or focused at all. That's just how she was. So, to me this is a case of where something like this will continue to happen as long as scuba is marketed as something for everyone with everyone passed (more or less) regarding their OW course.

My knowledge of that diver was pretty much in line with yours ... but I also saw her as something of an excitable person ... someone who created "drama" out of easily solveable problems. For that reason I did worry about her ... as I do a few others I know like that.

And I do wonder how folks like that manage to make it through their OW training ... part of an instructor's job (to my concern) is to let folks like that know that diving probably isn't something they should be doing, out of concern for their safety.

There is an older couple who dive quite frequently, push the limits sometimes and always (and I mean always) have serious issues on every dive. Some people just aren't meant to scuba dive and they are the poster children for this and yet they are still (thankfully) with us.

Oh goodness yes ... I know exactly who you're talking about. Really nice people, total trainwrecks underwater ... every dive is an "adventure". What can you do about folks like that except worry ... and hope there's a guardian angel up there looking out for them.

I've had to throttle back my urge to "mother hen" people sometimes ... they're adults, and they (should) know what they're getting themselves into ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rligon]

No way to prove it, but I wonder how many of the bad judgement cases (and I think there are a lot) were the result of overconfidence? In my short time diving several friends have gone with us who were "5 dives in the Bahamas" level and they all felt diving the Pacific NW would be no problem at all. We won't go until they do at least a refresher with the LDS, and then try to make sure they understand that this is different than what they have done before. Slow and easy definitely works here, but if we weren't emphasizing it I have no doubt they would just jump in and go. Not saying that OW/AOW should work to make you afraid, but they should emphasize that you are a new diver and there is still a lot to learn.

 

[spoolin01]

The only problem is that if you find a cause for a large percentage of scuba deaths it has to be something that the scuba industry as a whole can correct. To me the number one cause of scuba deaths is poor judgment and I'm not sure you can influence someones judgment abilities or common sense. It seems to me you either have it or you don't.

To me there are three reasons for scuba deaths...heath related causes, your time is up (bad luck) issues or poor judgment.

What about using experience and skills, including training, and learning from sources such as accident statistics, as the third cause instead? Those are the elements that result in judgement I'd say. Judgement isn't a static or intrinsic quality and I can only imagine that if you targeted 'judgement' as accessible to industry, you'd use case studies as a key teaching tool. I find those compelling at least. I have to say by the time we would have got around to it, I'm not sure I would have given much heed to anything my OW instructor had to say about 'judgement' or any personal anecdotes he might have shared.

 

[Crush]

No way to prove it, but I wonder how many of the bad judgement cases (and I think there are a lot) were the result of overconfidence? In my short time diving several friends have gone with us who were "5 dives in the Bahamas" level and they all felt diving the Pacific NW would be no problem at all. We won't go until they do at least a refresher with the LDS, and then try to make sure they understand that this is different than what they have done before. Slow and easy definitely works here, but if we weren't emphasizing it I have no doubt they would just jump in and go. Not saying that OW/AOW should work to make you afraid, but they should emphasize that you are a new diver and there is still a lot to learn.

Re-posted from http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5534454-post13.html :

The bias that causes people to overestimate their abilities and to underestimate their inabilities (relative to others) is called illusory superiority.

Just under 80% of participants in a study evaluated themselves as being above-average drivers.

For details see McCormick, Iain A.; Frank H. Walkey, Dianne E. Green (June 1986). "Comparative perceptions of driver ability— A confirmation and expansion". Accident Analysis & Prevention 18 (3): 205–208.

 

[spoolin01]

The bias that causes people to overestimate their abilities and to underestimate their inabilities (relative to others) is called illusory superiority.

Just under 80% of participants in a study evaluated themselves as being above-average drivers.

For details see McCormick, Iain A.; Frank H. Walkey, Dianne E. Green (June 1986). "Comparative perceptions of driver ability— A confirmation and expansion". Accident Analysis & Prevention 18 (3): 205–208.

knowone, you're teed up...

 

[Crush]

knowone, you're teed up...

Am I in for a smack-down? I just read the studies and report - I don't carry them out...

 

[spoolin01]

Not at all, I enjoy your posts! I just got a chuckle out the juxtaposition of presumed gravitas and the grindingly mundane represented by that little snippet from the study, and the expectation that tax dollars paid for it.

I've seen a few of knowone's posts and while I'm often not sure of all that he's getting at, I imagined he might find this provocative. Just an impulsive guess.

 

[Mike Boswell]

I've seen a few of knowone's posts and while I'm often not sure of all that he's getting at, I imagined he might find this provocative. Just an impulsive guess.

Knowone is the one they laugh at,
Nervous laughs, the kind that fools do,
Glancing behind them, seeking reassurance from other fools,
While the land disappears over the horizon,
The deep turns ever deeper and bluer than black,
And the gnarled pilot notes in the dog-eared log,
"Here There Be Dragons".