Problem at Gilboa 4/21

[TheHobster]

I heard of this froim another local diver - bad juju - be careful out there

http://www.thecourier.com/

 

[SparticleBrane]

Just in case the original disappears...

2 die in diving accident
GILBOA -- Two people died Saturday in a diving accident at the Gilboa quarry in Putnam County.
Sherry Eads, 43, of Brookville, and Daniel Frendenberg, 21, of Union, were pronounced dead by Allen County Coroner Dr. Gary Beasley.
A third diver, Jason Balsbough, 21, of Clayton, was injured and was taken to Lima Memorial Hospital, where he was in the intensive care unit Saturday night. No further information about his condition was available from the hospital.
The Putnam County Sheriff's Office said the accident was reported at about 10:03 a.m. Saturday at the quarry, a popular destination for divers.
The sheriff's office said the three divers had entered the deep side of the quarry, and were about 107 feet deep when Eads and Frendenberg experienced problems with their air regulators because of icing in the 38-degree water.
Balsbough tried to assist Frendenberg with a backup regulator. Balsbough and Eads then headed for the surface, but Frendenberg did not follow them up, the sheriff's office said.
Balsbough and Eads were pulled from the water and taken to Lima Memorial Hospital. Frendenberg's body was recovered at about 11:05 a.m. Saturday.
The sheriff's office said equipment and diver error are suspected in the deaths. Autopsies will be conducted by the Lucas County Coroner's Office.
Assisting at the scene were Pandora, Ottawa and Leipsic EMS squads, the Gilboa Fire Department, two Life Flight helicopters, and the Putnam County and Allen County dive teams.

 

[do it easy]

I dove Gilboa a few months ago, and like most quarries, it gets dark pretty quickly at depth.

Does anyone know if they were diving singles or doubles, or had a redundant air source?

 

[bladephotog]

Here is a link to the story my paper published today. As of last night not much was known.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Is learning taking place yet?

 

[DandyDon]

MikeFerrara
Is learning taking place yet?

Did you want to say something?

Here is a link to the story my paper published today. As of last night not much was known.

Excerpting from that article....

And the fact a third diver might survive may be the result of a coincidental training exercise nearby.

"This is what we train for," said Lisa Rittinger, a member of the Midwest Technical Recovery Team, a Detroit-based group of volunteer divers who specialize in underwater recovery efforts.

Several members of the team were training at Gilboa yesterday when they saw a panicked diver.

At least the Sheriff should give a better report than we usually see...

Sheriff James Beutler, a diver himself for many years, said icing in the regulators of Ms. Eads and Mr. Frendenberg may have set into motion other problems, including diver panic.

38 degrees is pretty cold. When should one start to worry about icing with most regs anyway...?

 

[do it easy]

38 degrees is pretty cold. When should one start to worry about icing with most regs anyway...?

Regs can free flow at any temperature, although it is more rare at warmer temps. They can also free flow because of mechanical problems.

My rule of thumb is that free flows are always a possibility below the thermocline. The 38f temp doesn't sound unusually cold for that depth at this time of year.

As far as learning goes- the fact that this is a double fatality in a group of three seems alarming. It sounds like there were simultaneous free flows. Just to put some perspective- I think Curt Bowen did some tests and found that a free flowing reg will drain an AL80 in about 90 seconds. I've had a 2nd stage free flow at 100' and it emptied the AL80 before I made it back to the surface. In my case, I was already sharing air when it ran out.

Even with redundancy and buddies, free flows can be hard to manage- switching to an independant regulator does not alway remove the conditions that cause the first free flow.

 

[Aquarianna]

38 degrees is pretty cold. When should one start to worry about icing with most regs anyway...?

I've heard that you don't have to worry about icing unless you take a breath from your reg when it's dry and above water when the temp is less than 32. Any idea how true it is?
Either way, deep condolences to their family and community.

 

[do it easy]

I've heard that you don't have to worry about icing unless you take a breath from your reg when it's dry and above water when the temp is less than 32. Any idea how true it is?

Only partly true- that is the standard advice for ice diving, but there are other forces at work that can cause free flows. As the gas moves from the high pressure tank to the intermediate pressure in the regulator, the temperature drops due to adiabatic cooling. This is the same principle that makes tanks warm when you fill them, only in reverse. (Guy-Lassac's law)

 

[SteveAD]

I've heard that you don't have to worry about icing unless you take a breath from your reg when it's dry and above water when the temp is less than 32. Any idea how true it is?
Either way, deep condolences to their family and community.

It is more accurate to say that that freezing becomes more likely if you breathe the reg at the surface. Water temps will rarely drop significantly below 32 degrees, air temps can easily be much lower. Waters' thermal properties will conduct heat to and from the first stage very efficiently to keep the first stage very near water temp, so if adiabatic cooling drops the 1st stage temp below freezing, the 1st stage will absorb heat from the water (which is above freezing) and prevent ice formation. In air temps near, but above freezing, the air may not be able to warm the 1st stage as quickly as the adiabatic process can cool it. In air temps below freezing, everything is working together to freeze. But even in water a reg that is not well designed for cold water performance can freeze up, and this likelyhood will increse with increasing depth.