Qualifications of a DM

[Raphus]

After we had multiple discussions in the past and just recently in this thread:
I f*** up and I am ashamed
i want to pick this topic up.

I think its not new, that there are DM´s out there, which are poorly training. Without any diving knowlede, byciclekicks and just overall danger to themself or the customers.
I saw fresh DMs, worse then OWD students.

I dont like the idea of putting the dive limits higher. because 1. dive logs can be faked(and are faked!) and 2. i saw many DM´s with 60-100 dives which are just great. And i saw DM´s with hundreds of dives, which were just bad.

So in my opinion hard limits like #of dives or total underwater time wont fix the issue.
I think there should be a in water test. Without skills(or just some skills for taskloading?)
Before registering for the DM course, there should be a general check dive, which can only be passed, when diving safely and good enough to fokus on other stuff(eg. customer), instead of own bouyancy.

whats your opinion? You got experience with bad DMs`? how is it possible to fix the problem?(in theorie..)

The TLDR of the other thread is:

• The "DM" in that story lead a group of divers, who were unqualified & not equipped to enter a cave (or cavern that was borderline cave), and placed divers at risk. The unqualified divers also followed, placing themselves at risk.
• Another DM in that thread had a few glaring knowledge-gaps. (please don't dog-pile that person further)

The comment I made in the other thread is essentially:

• Should the industry be more forthcoming about "DM just means little more than tour-guide?"
  
• Should we encourage beginner divers to be less trusting of DMs & be more prepared to stop if the DM does something you're not ready for?
• Should we not call them "Dive Masters"?
• Are there massive gaps in DM training or qualification that need to be addressed? And if yes, which Dive Agencies have those gaps?

 

[Wibble]

Experience. Lots of experience.
Understanding. Lots of understanding.
Wide ranging skills, both theory and practice. Through lots of the above.
Exemplary core skills (buoyancy, trim, finning), holding a static stop at 6m/20' for 5 mins without moving.

With entry "qualifications" of a handful of dives, it's clear that this results in nonsense. Experience takes time and dedication; hundreds of dives in different conditions.

Arguably you should be able to dive beyond the limits of recreational diving (42m/132', no deco).

The simple answer to this is third-party testing with a day-long workshop requiring written exams, oral exams (answering detailed questions), but most importantly in-water assessments for at least two dives.

This should require the candidate to demonstrate great skills: keeping a stop without holding on to a line or SMB and not moving forwards, putting up an SMB, rescue skills, finning skills, and exceedingly good buoyancy when being handed heavy and light things (passing stages around?), navigation skills, blackout mask skills (showing control), self-reliance, switching between regulators...

 

[Centrals]

The industry needs a proper shake up from OW to instructor.

Number of logged dive does not tell anything about the diver's ability or lack of it.
I would like to see the addition of "in-water assessments" on basic skill and techniques ie. what they had learnt from previous courses as entry requirement for DM.
I have dived with AOW qualified diver who could not clear her mask. A rescue diver candidate who did not strap the bc securely and the tank slipped off during the dive. Dived with a newly qualified instructor who could not handle current.

 

[SlugLife]

The TLDR of the other thread is:

• The "DM" in that story lead a group of divers, who were unqualified & not equipped to enter a cave (or cavern that was borderline cave), and placed divers at risk. The unqualified divers also followed, placing themselves at risk.
• Another DM in that thread had a few glaring knowledge-gaps. (please don't dog-pile that person further)

The comment I made in the other thread is essentially:

• Should the industry be more forthcoming about "DM just means little more than tour-guide?"
  
• Should we encourage beginner divers to be less trusting of DMs & be more prepared to stop if the DM does something you're not ready for?
• Should we not call them "Dive Masters"?
• Are there massive gaps in DM training or qualification that need to be addressed? And if yes, which Dive Agencies have those gaps?

Adding to my second question/point, nitrogen narcosis can impair judgement beyond what one is used to at the surface. There's probably a natural temptation to follow a DM, if they start going somewhere exciting, like into a wreck or cavern. In hindsight, it might be easy to say "of course don't follow the DM somewhere unsafe," but if a diver hasn't been appropriately prepared for that situation it's all too easy to follow other instincts.

As a counter-point, and perhaps devil's advocate, we need to have realistic expectations as well. If DMs were required to have a few thousand dives and a laundry-list of qualifications, we'd have practically no DMs. That's a reason why I think a big part of the problem is in the name "Dive Master." If we called them "Dive Guides" instead, the name perhaps better matches the role, and our expectation of Dive-Guides as well. I have a similar critique of the name "Advanced Open Water," and that it should really be called "Intermediate Open Water."

Dive agencies probably won't change the name, unless we can get all of them to change it at the same time. In part, because Dive Agencies want to sell classes, and names like "Dive Master" and "Advanced Open Water" are good marketing-names.

 

[The Chairman]

Many dive guides are not DM certified. They are simply there because they know the UW terrain and can show you the cool stuff. Personally, I eschew dive guides when I splash. I don't need or want them to show me the cool stuff as I like to explore on my own.

So the real question for me isn't the qualifications of a DM, but of the diver who feels they NEED a DM (or DG) to follow around like a sheep?

 

[Raphus]

The TLDR of the other thread is:

• The "DM" in that story lead a group of divers, who were unqualified & not equipped to enter a cave (or cavern that was borderline cave), and placed divers at risk. The unqualified divers also followed, placing themselves at risk.
• Another DM in that thread had a few glaring knowledge-gaps. (please don't dog-pile that person further)

The comment I made in the other thread is essentially:

• Should the industry be more forthcoming about "DM just means little more than tour-guide?"
  
• Should we encourage beginner divers to be less trusting of DMs & be more prepared to stop if the DM does something you're not ready for?
• Should we not call them "Dive Masters"?
• Are there massive gaps in DM training or qualification that need to be addressed? And if yes, which Dive Agencies have those gaps?

quoted your post in my initial pos, so everyone can read it. As we all know, some only read the first post.

 

[Centrals]

Many dive guides are not DM certified. They are simply there because they know the UW terrain and can show you the cool stuff. Personally, I eschew dive guides when I splash. I don't need or want them to show me the cool stuff as I like to explore on my own.

So the real question for me isn't the qualifications of a DM, but of the diver who feels they NEED a DM (or DG) to follow around like a sheep?

Location and location.
In our part of the world, SE Asia, dive guide is always provided by the shop for recreational diving. Some resorts will let you dive house reef non guided but that is not common.

The max depth allowed in Maldives is 30m regardless of qualification.

 

[The Chairman]

Location and location.
In our part of the world, SE Asia, dive guide is always provided by the shop for recreational diving. Some resorts will let you dive house reef non guided but that is not common.

The max depth allowed in Maldives is 30m regardless of qualification.

There are some places that won't let you dive without a DM... I find that if I go exceedingly slow, then they usually ignore me and let me dive as I please. I did have one diveop put another DG in the water to keep back with me, but all the others just let me plod along. Most DGs can recognize superior control and will leave you alone when they do. I was diving in a park in Statia with a park ranger. He didn't like how close to a reef I was and was coming over to gently lift me up and stopped. He realized that I had far better control than he did, and stopped worrying about me. I didn't know about this until we were back on the boat and he approached me. He actually gave me permission to dive on my own for the remaining dives. Those were some awesome dives.

However, most places put in a DG as a courtesy. I see people follow them, nose to butt in single file. Then they all crowd together to see the same critter, pushing and jostling for the best angle and then rushing off nose to butt again. That's simply not for me. I want to explore on my own and have forgone diving with some ops that require you to stick with their guide.

I mentioned this recently, but most divers would really benefit from taking a cavern course. I had done that shortly before my trip to Statia and the benefit of being allowed to dive on my own was awesome. I can't promise that this will always be the case, but it's worked out well for me so far.

 

[Pkishino]

IMO,
On a skill level, to begin any kind of DM training, you should be able to pass e.g GUE fundie tech pass level of requirements(or similar). That way you have demonstrated clear and satisfactory knowledge and competence of the key core diving fundamentals. On further levels this world clearly be even more stringent on a variety of other skills, especially team management and non-basic skills. Required to demonstrate on a reoccurring basis…
But a dive guide can be anyone really and it should be clear that a DG is only a tour guide, no further responsibilities included.

 

[Centrals]

In many places that I had dived in SE Asia, the DG is required by law! It might have something to do with the local employment? Possible.
It is NOT easy to take good care of everyone with various abilities without a dedicated staff.
It is NOT easy to say NO to business.
Some divers will BS about his/her diving experiences. Divers could not understand/set his/her own dc. Divers simply forgot the meaning of ndl etc etc.
An experienced DG can assist those who needed and prevent a lot of tricky situation to get out of control.

Most local would not be able to afford the proper DM course but I have seen plenty DG managed to deal a lot of situations where lesser person would not be able to handle. They have my respect.