Qualifications of a DM

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MD was required since it included all academic knowledge prerequisite for leadership courses.
Again, I didn't have it and I became a NAUI instructor. Thanks to ScubaBoard, I aced all the tests. I think I missed one question all week and the other guy only missed two. I'm pretty sure he didn't have an MD cert either. They weren't particularly hard tests... very basic. HS chemistry and physics covered most of the science topics. Having the sense God gave a goose helped. Talking about some of the issues here helped considerably. The staff was incredibly happy that we didn't have any remedial learning to do in that regard.
 
NAUI has an "ITC" or "Instructor Training Course" but it isn't the "IDC" the other agency has.
Yeah, yeah... NAUI, NAUI, rah, rah, rah. I bought into that at first. I was even an IT for NAUI and an Evaluator for NASE. I don't have as high a regard for the alphabet soup as some. Agencies don't train divers: Instructors do. Every agency has great, not-so-great, and even some piss-poor instructors. NAUI taught me to teach on my knees... I decided not to.

Edit=> You know, I take that back about being an IT for NAUI. I did the work and all the prep, and then I didn't file the paperwork. Or more accurately, I asked that it not be turned in.
 
Yeah, yeah... NAUI, NAUI, rah, rah, rah. I bought into that at first. I was even an IT for NAUI and an Evaluator for NASE. I don't have as high a regard for the alphabet soup as some. Agencies don't train divers: Instructors do. Every agency has great, not-so-great, and even some piss-poor instructors. NAUI taught me to teach on my knees... I decided not to.


I am not sure of what issue you have and why you resort to agency bashing especially when I was merely explaining the differences in terminology and courses name making no reference to superiority of one agency over another.

If you feel that your agency now is a rubber stamp agency and isn't better quality than others, that is your choice but this isn't what I was talking about at all.
 
why you resort to agency bashing
Rly? Agency bashing? I didn't do that. I merely indicated that I don't hold them in near as high a regard as you do and why. Citing all agencies as being equal, is not a bash, nor could it be. Sharing my experiences is not bashing them either.

I've been an instructor for six agencies. They are far more alike than dissimilar. There's a greater variation of the quality of instructors within an agency than there are variations between agencies. Again, agencies don't certify divers: instructors do. I advise students to select an instructor based on what and how they teach. Let the instructor worry about what agency aegis they work under.
 
If you feel that your agency now is a rubber stamp agency and isn't better quality than others,
I want to come back to this: All agencies are "rubber stamps". No agency requires an OW diving test by an independent evaluator. They merely rubber-stamp the instructor's decision to issue a card. Some agencies don't even require that an instructor be tested by an independent evaluator. They merely take the money and rubber-stamp the CD's decision.
 
I want to come back to this: All agencies are "rubber stamps". No agency requires an OW diving test by an independent evaluator. They merely rubber-stamp the instructor's decision to issue a card. Some agencies don't even require that an instructor be tested by an independent evaluator. They merely take the money and rubber-stamp the CD's decision.

Perhaps that's how your agency does it, with NAUI you have an "Instructor Trainer" who trains the instructor candidates and then they go to a Course Director/Instructor Examiner who does the evaluation/testing.

You have been out of NAUI for a very long time and you don't know the standards and the changes so it isn't fair for you to judge or to generalize. I am also cross certified by several other agencies and I choose NAUI for I believe it has better standards with better curriculum, better textbooks, superior eLearning and higher level of training.
 
It's a long held belief of mine, that each course would have an exit requirement with regard to certain skills - say buoyancy with ever increasing standards

I think that for DM there should be an entry test of skills - to include the swim tests before you can start on the course - although I appreciate that impacts those doing the course on vacation with limited time.

I spend an awful lot of time on students in the pool getting them up to working level of skills, kicks and buoyancy, time which could be better spent refining them and giving them more experience in other stuff. They will get more learning experiences diving alongside real customers making real errors then they would in the same time pootling around a reef

In some ways PADI are held to higher standards -- of their own making. The DM course sort of has two target customers: it's the PADI entrance exam, required to work 'for' them, AI, Instructor, ++. These people are basically signing up to work for a dive shop to learn the ropes and eventually become a DM once they're past the basic skill levels.

The other target are people who are doing it as an amateur to improve their skills. These people shouldn't be able to get through what is purported to be high skilled training in a simple vacation week.

I'll illustrate this with Fundies... If you rock up to "do" GUE Fundamentals you will be measured by their absolute standards for your skills. You won't be passed unless you meet those standards. If you're early in your diving career (as was my case), you will be expected to go away and practice those skills and be assessed at a later date. Learning those skills is difficult; however, once learned, life's much easier.

To be honest, most courses are like this -- if you're not up to the standard, you're often pushed back. The difference with Fundies is that the skill levels are strictly enforced. This higher level of skills should be required on an "advanced" course such as Dive Master, i.e. no easy passes.

Edit:
Course standards vary according to the levels. The entry-level courses OW, AOW allow a wide variation in standards and, to be blunt, some poorly skilled people are let through because they're expected to be doing "follow the dive leader" type dives in holiday locations. (For people diving in difficult conditions - lakes, UK, cold tidal green waters - their training's likely to be much much harder than those in benign warm-waters) But the point stands; as long as you're not completely incapable or dangerous, you'll pass.

For more advanced courses, the standards required to pass increase considerably. Are PADI's DiveMaster course standards for basic skills high enough?
 
I am also cross certified by several other agencies and I choose NAUI for I believe it has better standards with better curriculum, better textbooks, superior eLearning and higher level of training.
I left them because I felt they didn't. They were practically the last ones to adopt online academics as well as to abandon tables. They were always calling themselves the leader but seemed to be the last to adopt new principles. I was called by the NAUI rep for teaching an entire OW class neutrally buoyant. I was reported by a fellow instructor who gleefully had his class kneel in the sand. He couldn't find a "thou shalt kneel" in the standards, so no action was taken. When I found an agency with a "Thou shalt not kneel" mindset, I abandoned them.

NAUI is a fine agency. Like all other agencies, it has great, not-so-great, and sucky instructors. It wasn't progressive enough for me at the time nor were the standards neutral enough. I'm happy that you're happy with them. I'm happy that I'm happy with other agencies. I definitely haven't bashed them one whit in this discourse.

You have been out of NAUI for a very long time and you don't know the standards and the changes so it isn't fair for you to judge or to generalize.
I didn't judge. I pointed out that I didn't need that when I took my IDC. How is that not fair? I even researched my assertion and reported back that "MD or equivalent" was currently needed. You still haven't answered my question about what "or equivalent" means. BTW, do you even know how long I've been gone from NAUI?

Things change, often for the better and sometimes for the worse. I get this vibe from your writing that somehow I'm a lesser instructor now that I've left NAUI and I can assure you that isn't the case. I would match up almost any of my OW students to those who have passed fundies. How brash is that? Hey, I've had DIR divers marvel at my students in the water, so I don't think I'm out of line. I'm not a super instructor, but I made a choice a long time ago: no kneeling, no standing, and no lying on the bottom while on Scuba in my classes. I also made a decision to set that example all the time on every dive. Those two decisions will revolutionize how you teach and you'll be incredibly proud of the students you turn out.
 
You guys are missing the real issue here. Its not the agency itself, its who has the coolest jacket patch. GUE is cool, cause it has a guy with a scooter on it. PADI has some little guy holding a road flare swimming through the world. NAUI has a dive flag but compared to the guy on the scooter, its plain. IANTD has a equilateral triangle, kind of thing you use to rack pool balls.TDI has a set of doubles, still kinda plain.

You should pick your training based on how their patch fits in with the motif of your jacket. The fact is, when you whip out your card and give it to a charter operator or resort, they probably do not give a damn what flavor it is as long as your credit card clears. But, if your jacket is cool, then everyone else on the boat will be impressed.
 
You guys are missing the real issue here. Its not the agency itself, its who has the coolest jacket patch. GUE is cool, cause it has a guy with a scooter on it. PADI has some little guy holding a road flare swimming through the world. NAUI has a dive flag but compared to the guy on the scooter, its plain. IANTD has a equilateral triangle, kind of thing you use to rack pool balls.TDI has a set of doubles, still kinda plain.

You should pick your training based on how their patch fits in with the motif of your jacket. The fact is, when you whip out your card and give it to a charter operator or resort, they probably do not give a damn what flavor it is as long as your credit card clears. But, if your jacket is cool, then everyone else on the boat will be impressed.

IANTD may have an equilateral triangle, but not only was the triangle constructed properly with a compass and straight edge it has some cool stuff from the periodic table embedded within. I think that bumps it up to just below the GUE patch. YMMV
 
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