Question about bcd remove underwater

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I did mine in both pool and OW ocean. In my Self Reliant course we did this at mid depth and had to retain our buoyancy. You really need to perform this task in an environment that you will be diving in. It's not hard if if keep your cool and think about what you are doing. And be sure to hug your bc as you are removing it. Other wise you will shoot to the surface.
Depends on where your weights are; you'll shoot to the bottom if you're using a weight belt!
 
SDI and NASE only require this being done in the pool. However, they both require surface doff and don. Here's a student of mine doing a neutral doff and don in about 5 foot of water. She brushes the bottom only once.

  • Get horizontal and neutral!
  • Undo all your straps and carefully splay them out
  • Slip the left arm out
  • The diver spins UNDER the Scuba Gear which pulls their right arm out of the harness
    • The diver moves: not the gear!
    • Watch your buoyancy now that you're upside down!
  • Adjust gear or remove entanglement
  • Spin back in, RIGHT ARM FIRST!
  • Redo all your straps.
  • Check that your hoses are routed correctly.
  • You're done! Go have fun!
 
I just watched a bunch of YouTube videos trying to find an example of sitting on the tank and found none.
You didn't look hard enough.
 
I had to do it in the pool, on the surface, and underwater doing the OW course.
 
SDI and NASE only require this being done in the pool. However, they both require surface doff and don. Here's a student of mine doing a neutral doff and don in about 5 foot of water. She brushes the bottom only once.

"Brushed", "bounced".... That's the one I was talking about that I saw. Whatever you want to call it, it looked like the bottom was what stopped her from continuing to sink. Not knocking her. If that was an OW student, she did dang good on her buoyancy, really, I think.

But, the way it was done left me wondering "what was the point"? She was only controlling the rig by supporting it with her body. The videos of people doing it on their knees do not demonstrate any buoyancy control skill at all. But, they do demonstrate that they have separated the BCD from their body and have control of it with their hands.

I'm not an instructor, so maybe I am misunderstanding the point of the exercise. It seems like the point would be to be able to deal with problems the rig might have. E.g. something on the rig is entangled. Or the tank is loose in the strap. Or the 1st stage wasn't attached properly. Or whatever. Things that potentially can't be fixed by simply spinning in the rig and still supporting it with your body.

Your video demonstrates spinning in the rig and (pretty) good buoyancy control (for a beginner). It doesn't demonstrate separating oneself from the rig and then getting it back on. All the other videos I watched demonstrated separating oneself from the rig so that one could deal with any (fixable) problem that might come up. But, except for the one done vertically in mid-water, they don't demonstrate any buoyancy control.

As someone who is not an instructor, it seems like the ideal would be to demonstrate good buoyancy control AND the ability to completely separate from the rig in order to solve any (fixable) problem. No?

You didn't look hard enough.

Well, I was looking for a video of it being done underwater, not at the surface. Clearly, I misunderstood what was meant when people were talking about sitting on their tank. As evidenced by my question about whether it was being done mid-water or on the bottom.

My bad.
 
"Brushed", "bounced".... That's the one I was talking about that I saw. Whatever you want to call it, it looked like the bottom was what stopped her from continuing to sink. Not knocking her. If that was an OW student, she did dang good on her buoyancy, really, I think.

But, the way it was done left me wondering "what was the point"? She was only controlling the rig by supporting it with her body. The videos of people doing it on their knees do not demonstrate any buoyancy control skill at all. But, they do demonstrate that they have separated the BCD from their body and have control of it with their hands.

I'm not an instructor, so maybe I am misunderstanding the point of the exercise. It seems like the point would be to be able to deal with problems the rig might have. E.g. something on the rig is entangled. Or the tank is loose in the strap. Or the 1st stage wasn't attached properly. Or whatever. Things that potentially can't be fixed by simply spinning in the rig and still supporting it with your body.

Your video demonstrates spinning in the rig and (pretty) good buoyancy control (for a beginner). It doesn't demonstrate separating oneself from the rig and then getting it back on. All the other videos I watched demonstrated separating oneself from the rig so that one could deal with any (fixable) problem that might come up. But, except for the one done vertically in mid-water, they don't demonstrate any buoyancy control.

As someone who is not an instructor, it seems like the ideal would be to demonstrate good buoyancy control AND the ability to completely separate from the rig in order to solve any (fixable) problem. No?

Seriously that was pretty darn good for an OW student and better than a vast majority of certified OW divers can do. If this is the quality of OW diver that The Chairman is producing more power to him. With only spinning the body and not the gear if it is entangled you don't make it worse by spinning the gear around your body you just wrapped it up more. If you can't get the entanglement or issue fixed with you facing your gear and it laying on your stomach you may have an issue that is bigger than you thought.
 
Seriously that was pretty darn good for an OW student and better than a vast majority of certified OW divers can do. If this is the quality of OW diver that The Chairman is producing more power to him. With only spinning the body and not the gear if it is entangled you don't make it worse by spinning the gear around your body you just wrapped it up more. If you can't get the entanglement or issue fixed with you facing your gear and it laying on your stomach you may have an issue that is bigger than you thought.

Understood. My point was not to criticize in any way the buoyancy or spinning in the gear versus spinning the gear around you.

The point was to ask what is the purpose of the u/w BCD remove/replace? I thought the point was to completely separate the BCD from the diver (except by holding onto it with your hand or hands). Even if the video had shown absolutely zero deviance from the initial depth, it still would not show complete separation of diver and BCD. So, I don't understand what the point of the exercise is and thus why I am asking.

Suppose you DO have "an issue that is bigger than you thought." Does that somehow mean you do not need to have the ability to doff your BCD so that it is completely separated from you?

If the diver in that video has only ever done a BCD don/doff underwater in the way shown, then that diver has never experienced what happens when you doff your rig while vertical or if you have to completely separate yourself from it for some reason. Has that diver really gotten ALL the experience that they are supposed to get during OW training?
 
Understood. My point was not to criticize in any way the buoyancy or spinning in the gear versus spinning the gear around you.

The point was to ask what is the purpose of the u/w BCD remove/replace? I thought the point was to completely separate the BCD from the diver (except by holding onto it with your hand or hands). Even if the video had shown absolutely zero deviance from the initial depth, it still would not show complete separation of diver and BCD. So, I don't understand what the point of the exercise is and thus why I am asking.

Suppose you DO have "an issue that is bigger than you thought." Does that somehow mean you do not need to have the ability to doff your BCD so that it is completely separated from you?

If the diver in that video has only ever done a BCD don/doff underwater in the way shown, then that diver has never experienced what happens when you doff your rig while vertical or if you have to completely separate yourself from it for some reason. Has that diver really gotten ALL the experience that they are supposed to get during OW training?
Go to the 30 minute mark of this video Stuart and you will see a demo that hits on everything you are describing and yes, ideally, the purpose of this skill is to position yourself in such a way that you can deal with an entanglement or your cam band. I will say this though: The instructor in this demo is wearing a very thin wetsuit and has a weight belt on, which makes executing this skill while neutrally buoyant and in horizontal or vertical trim a whole lot easier than doing it this same way in a 7mm wetsuit or drysuit and fully integrated weights. It is very easy to start floating up and away from your rig if you have the rig too far away from you and are not using it and its weight to keep you together and neutral or together and negative.
 
I want to have the easy relationship with my gear that I have with my bicycle. I was diving with my favorite DM recently and he had a leaking o-ring on his yoke connection to his tank as sometimes happens. I pointed at him and at my valve to indicate he might want to take a look if only to know the rate and determine if he wanted to do anything about it. We never even slowed down our finning. He had it off, inspected and donned in nothing flat and signaled it was ok and he would think about it. He treated it being strapped to him as a convenience rather than a necessity and the ease with which he handled it made me want to have what he has. I don't understand these threads. Why would you not want to be comfortable managing your gear in any position and any configuration? Yes, weight locations, amounts and various gear configurations define the techniques but shouldn't we be learning this kind of comfortable relationship with our gear from the beginning so that we can expect to end up there?
 
Stuart, Yes, that's what we were told--that you have to completely remove the unit except for the reg MP in your mouth of course. Fix whatever problem and put it back on. I haven't had to do this yet and imagine an uncountable number of divers go their whole life not having to. Good to know though.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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